From Kainedrama at aol.com  Mon Sep  4 18:40:06 2000
From: Kainedrama at aol.com (Kainedrama@aol.com)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:24 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] Mac
Message-ID: <76.2bd910d.26e58cd6@aol.com>

do u have a mac client?
<A HREF="http://www.netrek.org/cow/current/">COW 3.00</A>

From telebar at infovia.com.ar  Tue Sep  5 21:14:28 2000
From: telebar at infovia.com.ar (CYBER-BAR)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:24 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] Aqui  Patagonia Argentina
Message-ID: <000d01c017a8$40360300$60ed0dd1@hp>

Sr. Turner :
                 me dirijo a Ud.  a  efectos de hacerle conocer  que pertenezco a la  Cooperativa  de Trabajo y Servicios  Asistenciales  "El Camino" Ltda.,la cual esta abocada  a crear fuentes   de trabajo para palear la situacion imperante en nuestro pais, y teniendo conocimiento de  su  interes marcado por la ecologia y el resguardo de la naturaleza es que me he tomado el atrevimiento de solicitarle  su colaboracion .
                 A continuacion   informo de nuestra situacion , somos un grupo de 10 personas , las  cuales  tomamos la  determinacion que no solo hay que observar lo que ocurre a nuestro alrrededor , sino que hay que ser parte activa  en la  lucha por desterrar la pobreza , como asi tambien preservar el medio ambiente . Para tal fin hemos  armado un proyecto de  reciclado de papel  con el cual preservamos la tala de arboles y a sus vez  damos trabajo a una cantidad importante de personas , las cuales quiza no puedan lograr reinsertarse a la cadena laboral ,  por falta de estudios o  edad superior a 45 a?os,  nuestro proyecto esta   ideado desde la docencia  hasta la finalizacion del producto, en forma de cajas, sobres , bolsas etc.
                   El motivo que  me ha movilizado a hacerle  participe es   su colaboracion ya sea en forma de prestamo, donacion o quiza participacion directa de su parte hasta tanto nos pongamos en marcha.

Es necesario aclararle  que recien estamos comenzando, nuestra  formacion  cuenta solo con 2 meses  de antiguedad , que estamos debidamente registrados  en todos los  organismos  publicos que  requiere la inscripcion de la misma.
Como tambien  contarle que  nuestra  determinacion es   seguir creando fuentes de trabajo  con las ganancias   que debengue la cooperativa. 

              Sin otro particular le saludo atte .


Dora Violeta Delgado ( Tesorero Cooperativa El Camino)
D.N.I.13837651
San Martin 327 -Telefono: 0299-4420044
E-Mail telebar@infovia.com.ar
Neuquen- Argentina
                                                                     
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From s4jbare at szw.denhaag.nl  Thu Sep  7 09:15:06 2000
From: s4jbare at szw.denhaag.nl (Johan Barelds)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:24 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
Message-ID: <39B7A2EA.82E3EC5C@szw.denhaag.nl>

Hi!

I have downloaded the Solaris client, but i can't gunzip it; it says
that it isn't an gzip archive.
I tried it from very various locations, but it seems that the packet is
corrupt.
Could you please look into it?

Thanks!
Johan Barelds


From unbelver at us.netrek.org  Thu Sep  7 14:05:39 2000
From: unbelver at us.netrek.org (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:24 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
In-Reply-To: <39B7A2EA.82E3EC5C@szw.denhaag.nl>; from s4jbare@szw.denhaag.nl on Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:15:06PM +0200
References: <39B7A2EA.82E3EC5C@szw.denhaag.nl>
Message-ID: <20000907120539.A7232@brain.jpl.nasa.gov>

Quoting Johan Barelds <s4jbare@szw.denhaag.nl>:

> I have downloaded the Solaris client, but i can't gunzip it; it says
> that it isn't an gzip archive.
> I tried it from very various locations, but it seems that the packet is
> corrupt.

Here's what version of gzip I used:

[brain] ~%gzip --version
gzip 1.2.4 (18 Aug 93)
Compilation options:
DIRENT UTIME HAVE_UNISTD_H
 
Are you sure you transferred it in binary mode?

--Carlos V.


From rsc at scd.ucar.edu  Thu Sep  7 14:19:38 2000
From: rsc at scd.ucar.edu (Bob Campbell)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:24 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
Message-ID: <200009071919.NAA26699@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>

> Quoting Johan Barelds <s4jbare@szw.denhaag.nl>:
> 
> > I have downloaded the Solaris client, but i can't gunzip it; it says
> > that it isn't an gzip archive.
> > I tried it from very various locations, but it seems that the packet is
> > corrupt.
> 
> Here's what version of gzip I used:
> 
> [brain] ~%gzip --version
> gzip 1.2.4 (18 Aug 93)
> Compilation options:
> DIRENT UTIME HAVE_UNISTD_H
>  
> Are you sure you transferred it in binary mode?

Chances are, he downloaded it with brain-dead Netscape, which auto-gunzip's
file for you, since Netscape was written by a bunch of silly Macs hacks
(and by "hack" I mean, someone who programs on the fly w/o thinking about
what they're doing), BUT it doesn't rename the file from 
xyz.tar.gz to
xyz.tar

So taking a wild guees, the file you're trying to gunzip is a tar file 
that's already been unzip'd.  Move the file to <file>.tar, and tar -tf to 
find out if the archive is ok. (Or just 'file xyz.tar.gz to see if I'm right)

Also, you might want to consider copying the Netscape.ad file to your home
directory (as Netscape) and comment out the following lines:

*encodingFilters:                                \
       x-compress :  : .Z     : uncompress -c  \n\
       compress   :  : .Z     : uncompress -c  \n\
       x-gzip     :  : .z,.gz : gzip -cdq      \n\
       gzip       :  : .z,.gz : gzip -cdq      \n

That way netscape won't try to be your brainless, benevolent master.

(By the way, sorry for the snide attitude, but I've been dealing with
Netscape lately, and some of these issues have pissed me off since Mosaic)



Bob Campbell                    Unix System Administrator
Scientific Computing Division   National Center for Atmospheric Research
rsc@ucar.edu                    (303) 497-1815



From zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu  Thu Sep  7 14:28:36 2000
From: zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu (Zachary Uram)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:25 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
In-Reply-To: <20000907120539.A7232@brain.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000907152819.17425C-100000@unix12.andrew.cmu.edu>

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Carlos Y. Villalpando wrote:
> Here's what version of gzip I used:
> 
> [brain] ~%gzip --version
> gzip 1.2.4 (18 Aug 93)
> Compilation options:
> DIRENT UTIME HAVE_UNISTD_H

UNIX12 ~ > gzip --version
gzip 1.2.4 (18 Aug 93)
Compilation options:
DIRENT UTIME STDC_HEADERS HAVE_UNISTD_H   

:)


uram@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29


From unbelver at us.netrek.org  Thu Sep  7 15:01:20 2000
From: unbelver at us.netrek.org (Carlos Y. Villalpando)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:25 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
In-Reply-To: <200009071919.NAA26699@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>; from rsc@scd.ucar.edu on Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:19:38PM -0600
References: <200009071919.NAA26699@niwot.scd.ucar.edu>
Message-ID: <20000907130120.A7445@brain.jpl.nasa.gov>

Quoting Bob Campbell <rsc@scd.ucar.edu>:

> xyz.tar.gz to
> xyz.tar

FYI, its not a tar file.  Its just a gzipped executable.  

COW.3.00pl2.Solaris251.gz is the file he wants to use (I think).

--Carlos V.

From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Fri Sep  8 14:37:50 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:25 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] What kind of gzip is this?
In-Reply-To: <39B7A2EA.82E3EC5C@szw.denhaag.nl>; from s4jbare@szw.denhaag.nl on Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:15:06PM +0200
References: <39B7A2EA.82E3EC5C@szw.denhaag.nl>
Message-ID: <20000908153750.A20420@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:15:06PM +0200, Johan Barelds wrote:
> 
> I have downloaded the Solaris client, but i can't gunzip it; it says
> that it isn't an gzip archive.
> I tried it from very various locations, but it seems that the packet is
> corrupt.
> Could you please look into it?

ftp://ftp.netrek.org/pub/netrek/clients/cow/COW-bin/COW.3.00pl2.Solaris251.gz

% gzip -tv COW.3.00pl2.Solaris251.gz
COW.3.00pl2.Solaris251.gz:       OK

> 
> Thanks!
> Johan Barelds
> 
> _______________________________________________
> vanilla-clients mailing list
> vanilla-clients@us.netrek.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/vanilla-clients

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From kbarretto at sprint.ca  Wed Sep 20 00:56:28 2000
From: kbarretto at sprint.ca (Kevin)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:50:25 2005
Subject: [Netrek Clients] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000801c022c7$85c09140$eb426395@barretto>

I'm having trouble w/ the color pixmaps package 
pls send installation instructions

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From vanilla-devel at us.netrek.org  Mon Sep  4 18:42:13 2000
From: vanilla-devel at us.netrek.org (Vanilla CVS Development)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:18 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] CVS update: metaserver
Message-ID: <200009042342.e84NgDx18952@swashbuckler.fortress.real-time.com>

Date:	Monday September 4, 2000 @ 18:42
Author:	unbelver

Update of /home/netrek/cvsroot/metaserver
In directory swashbuckler.fortress.real-time.com:/var/tmp/cvs-serv18949

Modified Files:
	rsa_keys 
Log Message:

New key from James and some minor formatting changes.

--Carlos V.




****************************************

Index: metaserver/rsa_keys
diff -u metaserver/rsa_keys:2.18 metaserver/rsa_keys:2.19
--- metaserver/rsa_keys:2.18	Fri Jul 21 20:16:51 2000
+++ metaserver/rsa_keys	Mon Sep  4 18:42:12 2000
@@ -590,25 +590,25 @@
    :gk=45af01b9285455f1e12f869a11fd04cca2285f8d031b4ed35e9fb6b507443115:\
    :pk=fb1dff6e41c09d908eff45e5e91f1a6f7a8f8a9e461478f74f4e1dd6b57ce70f:    
 #
-key.cow.3.linux_libc5:ct=Client Of Win:cr=007@netrek.org:\
+key.cow.3.linux_libc5:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=007@netrek.org:\
    :cd=March 1998:ar=Linux libc 5.x / Color Release:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=reserved.c blessed. Located at http://cow.netrek.org/:\
    :gk=61f182431a28b3aaabf945c1108c5571963221580b1a15a528f6dd2ac8804647:\
    :pk=21ba366bc9ed5b9b2579005fad85aade2f2a8bf5158bebf08cafc8a710969641:
 #
-key.cow.Solaris:ct=Client Of Win:cr=koconnor@acsu.buffalo.edu:\
+key.cow.Solaris:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=koconnor@acsu.buffalo.edu:\
    :cd=April 1998:ar=Solaris / SunOS 5.5.1:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=COW for Solaris!:\
    :gk=033abae47efe839966dbe28a5c8f74c436cb0f4bf02a1631d3928113c0f1067b:\
    :pk=f30449d9915b03f6be40aa5634e1b20c26d0344f9eb6c6858f807aebbb585f6a:
 #
-key.cow.linux_libc5:ct=Client Of Win:cr=007@netrek.org:\
+key.cow.linux_libc5:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=007@netrek.org:\
    :cd=March 1998:ar=Linux libc 5.x / Stable Release:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=reserved.c blessed. Located at http://cow.netrek.org/:\
    :gk=f3274e17fbf2bac8ba31820223336946b81df25ac6e6500de6a677b19b5acd04:\
    :pk=9528271baffcc45df9afeaec392f5258418cdcbf3fc94e023480ec44f6b21d04:
 #
-key.cow.FreeBSD:ct=Client Of Win:cr=nicblais@videotron.ca:\
+key.cow.FreeBSD:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=nicblais@videotron.ca:\
    :cd=May 1999:ar=FreeBSD 3.1 / ELF:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=For FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE and up, by Nicolas Blais:\
    :gk=59bba7d6d80cbffe86fe7a9aaf3c2986509c3e6d394f140a9093b454bff69b0c:\
@@ -620,17 +620,23 @@
    :gk=cf5cce688a5d9b001ae5706020b2d85fda6ffe2cc2b41f67fbe18541c9391a0a:\
    :pk=3b1bd4b559d3177813221dd2c3ef897d188ca9e2fb75e16e4e8e8fca48939506:
 #
-key.cow3pl2.Solaris251:ct=Client Of Win:cr=Carlos Villalpando <unbelver@us.netrek.org>:\ 
+key.cow3pl2.Solaris251:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=Carlos Villalpando <unbelver@us.netrek.org>:\ 
    :cd=January 2000:ar=Solaris251 / Cow 3.0pl2:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=reserved.c blessed. Located via http at cow.netrek.org:\
    :gk=971ef1ae3eba1b1ec7bc1e3cd86fcd41c19c3c421b64686fad7da38319b2960e:\
    :pk=79b55811516f491581cc8f6e945890e2374df458ed93471cb0459248e3811109:
 #
-key.cow.gnu_win32:ct=Client Of Win:cr=007@netrek.org:\
+key.cow.gnu_win32:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=007@netrek.org:\
    :cd=June 1999:ar=gnu_win32 / Cygnus GNU Win32 key:cl=inl,standard2:\
    :cm=reserved.c blessed. Located via http at cow.netrek.org:\
    :gk=594900fc0739d2727c37d39269d500af1613a01fd18e84b5586b83d8ca63242f:\
    :pk=09c384c3cc527ca0d45b37bb204588bed6186d4a98d00c7037b6ddd7eb4f6011:
+#
+key.cow.alpha_linux:ct=Client Of Win v3:cr=quozl@us.netrek.org:\
+   :cd=September 2000:ar=Linux Alpha:cl=inl,standard2:\
+   :cm=Think of it as evolution in action:\  
+   :gk=89251d60f87c6926d539d227d5718965cbca7f1ccaffb52a0e4fed7bce804618:\
+   :pk=6dfcc659c8c6519c8322956245bcb5f74e1fad610888ea0b8e7754eea55c8c14:
 #
 #       COW-lite Clients
 #

From I.J.Dash at cs.cf.ac.uk  Wed Sep 20 05:47:14 2000
From: I.J.Dash at cs.cf.ac.uk (Ian Dash)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:18 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk>

Hi,
   is it possible to build the vanilla server under win32? i.e under
CygWin or MSVC..

I've tried unsuccessfully under CygWin and alsohaven't had any joy 
building the zipped MSVC distribution that I got from netrek.org.

I'm running NT4.0 with the latest 'net release' of CygWin, and tried
compiling the MSVC version under MSVC5.0.

Any pointers would be much appreciated :)

-=Ian=-


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 10:54:22 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:18 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk>; from I.J.Dash@cs.cf.ac.uk on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:47:14AM +0100
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20000920115422.A23318@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:47:14AM +0100, Ian Dash wrote:
> Hi,
>    is it possible to build the vanilla server under win32? i.e under
> CygWin or MSVC..
> 
> I've tried unsuccessfully under CygWin and alsohaven't had any joy 
> building the zipped MSVC distribution that I got from netrek.org.
> 
> I'm running NT4.0 with the latest 'net release' of CygWin, and tried
> compiling the MSVC version under MSVC5.0.
> 
> Any pointers would be much appreciated :)

The Vanilla server does not work under Win32.  There is an NT port
of an older version of the server available at
	ftp://ftp.netrek.org/pub/netrek/servers/vanilla/NT/
but I do not believe it is fully functional.

If you make any improvements, please upload the tarballs to ftp.netrek.org
so that we can archive them.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Sep 20 11:44:45 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:18 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk>; from I.J.Dash@cs.cf.ac.uk on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:47:14AM +0100
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com>

Quoting Ian Dash (I.J.Dash@cs.cf.ac.uk):
> Hi,
>    is it possible to build the vanilla server under win32? i.e under
> CygWin or MSVC..
> 
> I've tried unsuccessfully under CygWin and alsohaven't had any joy 
> building the zipped MSVC distribution that I got from netrek.org.
> 
> I'm running NT4.0 with the latest 'net release' of CygWin, and tried
> compiling the MSVC version under MSVC5.0.
> 
> Any pointers would be much appreciated :)

Isn't this in the FAQ yet?
-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 11:47:46 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:18 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:44:45AM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:44:45AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> Isn't this in the FAQ yet?

At least half the entries in the FAQ are outdated.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Sep 20 12:08:52 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>; from ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:47:46PM -0400
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com> <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>
Message-ID: <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com>

Quoting Dave Ahn (ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu):
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 11:44:45AM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> > Isn't this in the FAQ yet?
> 
> At least half the entries in the FAQ are outdated.
> 

Should probably setup jyve?

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 12:11:58 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:08:52PM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com> <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20000920131158.A23462@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:08:52PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> > 
> > At least half the entries in the FAQ are outdated.
> > 
> 
> Should probably setup jyve?

Tom Holub's maintaining the FAQs... I offered to let him house it under
www.netrek.org, but he hasn't gotten back to me.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Sep 20 12:16:18 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920131158.A23462@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>; from ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 01:11:58PM -0400
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com> <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com> <20000920131158.A23462@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>
Message-ID: <20000920121618.A13154@real-time.com>

Quoting Dave Ahn (ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu):
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:08:52PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> > > 
> > > At least half the entries in the FAQ are outdated.
> > > 
> > 
> > Should probably setup jyve?
> 
> Tom Holub's maintaining the FAQs... I offered to let him house it under
> www.netrek.org, but he hasn't gotten back to me.
> 

Tom maintains the Netrek FAQ, manually correct?

Jyve is a chunck of software that maintains an FAQ for you. It's like
FAQ-O-Matic, but written in Java.
-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 12:19:31 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920121618.A13154@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:16:18PM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com> <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com> <20000920131158.A23462@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920121618.A13154@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20000920131931.A23525@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:16:18PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> 
> Tom maintains the Netrek FAQ, manually correct?
> 
> Jyve is a chunck of software that maintains an FAQ for you. It's like
> FAQ-O-Matic, but written in Java.

Yeah.  I don't think he's crazy about moving to Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic/etc.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Sep 20 12:21:26 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920131931.A23525@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>; from ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 01:19:31PM -0400
References: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009201141150.20794-100000@thrall.cs.cf.ac.uk> <20000920114445.K13154@real-time.com> <20000920124746.A23449@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920120852.W13154@real-time.com> <20000920131158.A23462@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <20000920121618.A13154@real-time.com> <20000920131931.A23525@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>
Message-ID: <20000920122126.E13154@real-time.com>

Quoting Dave Ahn (ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu):
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:16:18PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> > 
> > Tom maintains the Netrek FAQ, manually correct?
> > 
> > Jyve is a chunck of software that maintains an FAQ for you. It's like
> > FAQ-O-Matic, but written in Java.
> 
> Yeah.  I don't think he's crazy about moving to Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic/etc.
> 

I'm sure the blacksmith was not to crazy about the horseless carriage either,
but progress can be a really bitch.

:-P

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From jeffno at ccs.neu.edu  Wed Sep 20 12:34:34 2000
From: jeffno at ccs.neu.edu (Jeffrey Nowakowski)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920122126.E13154@real-time.com> from "Bob Tanner" at Sep 20, 2000 12:21:26 PM
Message-ID: <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu>

Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com> wrote:

> Quoting Dave Ahn (ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu):
> > 
> > Yeah.  I don't think he's crazy about moving to Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic/etc.
> > 
> 
> I'm sure the blacksmith was not to crazy about the horseless carriage either,
> but progress can be a really bitch.

I think the point of Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic is to let random Joe Blow update
a FAQ for you.  I'm not so sure that is any better than somebody
mailing Tom and saying "Please add blah blah to the FAQ."  Is the
problem Tom never gets around to updating the FAQ, or that people
never provide input?

-Jeff

From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 12:38:33 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu>; from jeffno@ccs.neu.edu on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 01:34:34PM -0400
References: <20000920122126.E13154@real-time.com> <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <20000920133833.A23137@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 01:34:34PM -0400, Jeffrey Nowakowski wrote:
> 
> I think the point of Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic is to let random Joe Blow update
> a FAQ for you.  I'm not so sure that is any better than somebody
> mailing Tom and saying "Please add blah blah to the FAQ."  Is the
> problem Tom never gets around to updating the FAQ, or that people
> never provide input?

Both.  I've sent him updates in the past, but they never made it into the
FAQ.  But I suspect that not many people do send in updates.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From tanner at real-time.com  Wed Sep 20 12:46:50 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu>; from jeffno@ccs.neu.edu on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 01:34:34PM -0400
References: <20000920122126.E13154@real-time.com> <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <20000920124650.F14459@real-time.com>

Quoting Jeffrey Nowakowski (jeffno@ccs.neu.edu):
> I think the point of Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic is to let random Joe Blow update
> a FAQ for you.  I'm not so sure that is any better than somebody
> mailing Tom and saying "Please add blah blah to the FAQ."  Is the
> problem Tom never gets around to updating the FAQ, or that people
> never provide input?

I definately know the latter is a case, but I think a FAQ engine would(?)
facilitate this a little more. At least then people can add to the comments to
the FAQ.
-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep 20 13:10:21 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:51:19 2005
Subject: [Vanilla Devel] Building server under win32?
In-Reply-To: <20000920124650.F14459@real-time.com>; from tanner@real-time.com on Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:46:50PM -0500
References: <20000920122126.E13154@real-time.com> <200009201734.e8KHYYd23523@denali.ccs.neu.edu> <20000920124650.F14459@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20000920141021.B23545@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 12:46:50PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote:
> Quoting Jeffrey Nowakowski (jeffno@ccs.neu.edu):
> > I think the point of Jyve/FAQ-O-Matic is to let random Joe Blow update
> > a FAQ for you.  I'm not so sure that is any better than somebody
> > mailing Tom and saying "Please add blah blah to the FAQ."  Is the
> > problem Tom never gets around to updating the FAQ, or that people
> > never provide input?
> 
> I definately know the latter is a case, but I think a FAQ engine would(?)
> facilitate this a little more. At least then people can add to the comments to
> the FAQ.

FAQ engines are nice, but I think there are problems with completely open
content control.  The sheer number of irrelevant questions might make the
FAQ completely useless.

I think the key is to allow several people access to modifying the FAQ
content.  I don't know if Tom is open to this idea.  In trying to facilitate
a more up-to-date Netrek home page, I've been considering using a content
management system like Zope to allow additional maintainers for sections
of the site.  For example, it'd be great if I can find somebody to update
and maintain Netrek hockey related pages under the www.netrek.org umbrella.
And to get some help finishing up the ever-in-progress player's guide.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2
From mailman-owner at lists.real-time.com  Fri Sep  1 05:00:09 2000
From: mailman-owner at lists.real-time.com (mailman-owner@lists.real-time.com)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:03 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] us.netrek.org mailing list memberships reminder
Message-ID: <200009011000.e81A09o20720@sprite.real-time.com>

This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your us.netrek.org
mailing list memberships.  It includes your subscription info and how
to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list.

You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery
or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such
changes.  For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of
the list (for example, vanilla-announce-request@us.netrek.org)
containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email
message will be sent to you with instructions.

If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to
mailman-owner@lists.real-time.com.  Thanks!

Passwords for vanilla-list@us.netrek.org:

List                                     Password // URL
----                                     --------  
vanilla-announce@us.netrek.org           VGyA      
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/options/vanilla-announce/vanilla-list@us.netrek.org

From quozl at us.netrek.org  Fri Sep  1 05:58:00 2000
From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:03 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] us.netrek.org mailing list memberships reminder
In-Reply-To: <200009011000.e81A09o20720@sprite.real-time.com>; from mailman-owner@lists.real-time.com on Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 05:00:09AM -0500
References: <200009011000.e81A09o20720@sprite.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <20000901215800.N8425@us.netrek.org>

*chuckle*

Now we know the password for the vanilla-list's membership on the
vanilla-announce mailing list.  ;-\

-- 
James Cameron    mailto:quozl@us.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/

From zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu  Fri Sep  1 06:24:51 2000
From: zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu (Zachary Uram)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:03 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] us.netrek.org mailing list memberships reminder
In-Reply-To: <200009011000.e81A09o20720@sprite.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000901072325.758A-100000@unix13.andrew.cmu.edu>

On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 mailman-owner@lists.real-time.com wrote:
> 
> Passwords for vanilla-list@us.netrek.org:
> 
> List                                     Password // URL
> ----                                     --------  
> vanilla-announce@us.netrek.org           [CENSORED]

The real-time mailman must be following a *really* open
security architecture :)

SDG,
Zach

uram@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29


From tanner at real-time.com  Fri Sep  1 10:43:05 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:03 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] us.netrek.org mailing list memberships reminder
In-Reply-To: <20000901215800.N8425@us.netrek.org>; from quozl@us.netrek.org on Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 09:58:00PM +1100
References: <200009011000.e81A09o20720@sprite.real-time.com> <20000901215800.N8425@us.netrek.org>
Message-ID: <20000901104305.A11468@real-time.com>

Quoting James Cameron (quozl@us.netrek.org):
> *chuckle*
> 
> Now we know the password for the vanilla-list's membership on the
> vanilla-announce mailing list.  ;-\
> 

argh!

-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu  Sun Sep  3 02:25:42 2000
From: zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu (Zachary Uram)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] vanilla distribution for Debian
In-Reply-To: <200008250023.e7P0NmE07912@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000903032457.21831A-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu>

Is there a .deb file for vanilla?

SDG,
Zach


uram@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29


From grover1 at dingoblue.net.au  Sun Sep  3 08:37:53 2000
From: grover1 at dingoblue.net.au (Neil Hunt)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] vanilla distribution for Debian
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000903032457.21831A-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu>; from zu22@andrew.cmu.edu on Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 03:25:42AM -0400
References: <200008250023.e7P0NmE07912@denali.ccs.neu.edu> <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000903032457.21831A-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <20000903213753.A3017@stirling.huntcorp.cx>

I was working on one, but it got lost in the great hard drive crash of 2000.. I am in the process of moving states, and once I am settled in Mel;bourne I will repackage Vanilla.
Grover
On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 03:25:42AM -0400, Zachary Uram wrote:
> Is there a .deb file for vanilla?
> 
> SDG,
> Zach
> 
> 
> uram@cmu.edu
> "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29
> 
> _______________________________________________
> vanilla-list mailing list
> vanilla-list@us.netrek.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/vanilla-list
> 

-- 
Neil Hunt		<grover@huntcorp.cx>
GPG = EFEBA0EB B9C3 27D3 7085 88C7 76B7  0B59 A50C A715 EFEB A0EB
Scientists were preparing an experiment to ask the ultimate question.
They had worked for months gathering one each of every computer that was
built. Finally the big day was at hand.  All the computers were linked
together.  They asked the question, "Is there a God?".  Lights started
blinking, flashing and blinking some more.  Suddenly, there was a loud
crash, and a bolt of lightning came down from the sky, struck the
computers, and welded all the connections permanently together.  "There
is now", came the reply.
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From zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu  Mon Sep  4 03:05:33 2000
From: zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu (Zachary Uram)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Continuum screwed up!
In-Reply-To: <20000822183815.C2507@real-time.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000904040322.2638D-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu>

Ask anyone playing on Continuum in past 3 hrs about the annoying
freezes :( The game freezes and you can't move, then game resumes
and you find yourself accelerated ahead in time. I timed the
freezes and the last 3 were approximately 24-26 seconds in
duration. It is even worse than lag burts! Whoever runs Continuum
please investigate this most vexing problem.

SDG,
Zach

uram@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29


From karthik at arumugham.com  Mon Sep  4 03:54:12 2000
From: karthik at arumugham.com (Karthik Arumugham)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Continuum screwed up!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000904040322.2638D-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009040444310.28321-100000@k6.crackaddict.com>

It seemed to be a routing problem in SprintLink when I tracerouted it right
after it died. Died in SprintLink Chicago somewehere, then came back with
lots of extra hops in the middle a few seconds later, and died some more and
did the same a couple times while I was playing.

Actually if I scroll up a bit I should still have it in one of these
terminals...

traceroute to sage.real-time.com (206.10.253.60), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
 1  f6-0-0.cr1.qui.cent.net (140.186.18.193)  1 ms  0 ms  0 ms
 2  sl-gw9-nyc-6-0-TS11.sprintlink.net (144.232.173.1)  8 ms  8 ms  8 ms
 3  sl-bb10-nyc-4-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.7.93)  8 ms  8 ms  9 ms
 4  sl-bb12-chi-10-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.18.53)  29 ms  29 ms  33 ms
 5  144.232.26.5 (144.232.26.5)  29 ms  29 ms  28 ms
 6  sl-gw22-chi-8-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.10)  29 ms  30 ms  29 ms
 7  sl-bb10-chi-10-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.9)  30 ms  30 ms  32 ms
 8  sl-bb11-chi-9-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.50)  29 ms  29 ms  28 ms  
 9  sl-bb12-chi-8-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.2)  28 ms  29 ms  27 ms   
10  sl-bb13-chi-8-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.53)  28 ms  28 ms  33 ms  
11  sl-bb3-chi-0-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.154)  28 ms  27 ms  28 ms
12  sl-gw10-chi-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.50.14)  29 ms  28 ms  28 ms  
13  sl-rtent-1-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.52.126)  39 ms  39 ms  48 ms    

9 hops just within SprintLink Chicago, quite amusing.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Zachary Uram wrote:

> Ask anyone playing on Continuum in past 3 hrs about the annoying
> freezes :( The game freezes and you can't move, then game resumes
> and you find yourself accelerated ahead in time. I timed the
> freezes and the last 3 were approximately 24-26 seconds in
> duration. It is even worse than lag burts! Whoever runs Continuum
> please investigate this most vexing problem.
> 
> SDG,
> Zach
> 
> uram@cmu.edu
> "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29
> 
> _______________________________________________
> vanilla-list mailing list
> vanilla-list@us.netrek.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/vanilla-list
> 


From zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu  Mon Sep  4 05:01:25 2000
From: zu22 at andrew.cmu.edu (Zachary Uram)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Continuum screwed up!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009040444310.28321-100000@k6.crackaddict.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000904055759.529B-100000@unix6.andrew.cmu.edu>

On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Karthik Arumugham wrote:
> It seemed to be a routing problem in SprintLink when I tracerouted it right
> after it died. Died in SprintLink Chicago somewehere, then came back with
> lots of extra hops in the middle a few seconds later, and died some more and
> did the same a couple times while I was playing.

Hmm is their router down or just burping for some reason?
Here is what I get:

broadsword# date
Mon Sep  4 02:57:29 PDT 2000
broadsword# ping sage.real-time.com
PING sage.real-time.com (206.10.253.60): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=0 ttl=238 time=109.4 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=1 ttl=238 time=107.4 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=2 ttl=238 time=106.4 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=3 ttl=238 time=106.4 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=4 ttl=238 time=107.5 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=5 ttl=238 time=107.5 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=6 ttl=238 time=106.5 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=7 ttl=238 time=106.9 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=8 ttl=238 time=106.7 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=9 ttl=238 time=106.9 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=10 ttl=238 time=106.7 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=11 ttl=238 time=105.8 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=12 ttl=238 time=105.8 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=13 ttl=238 time=106.8 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=14 ttl=238 time=107.2 ms
64 bytes from 206.10.253.60: icmp_seq=15 ttl=238 time=105.8 ms
--- sage.real-time.com ping statistics ---
16 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 105.8/106.8/109.4 ms
broadsword#
broadsword# traceroute sage.real-time.com
traceroute to sage.real-time.com (206.10.253.60), 30 hops max, 38
byte packets
 1  sabre.caelum.cx (192.168.1.1)  2.120 ms  1.901 ms  1.715 ms
 2  254-139-7-216.ip.sirius.com (216.7.139.254)  32.813 ms
    31.665 ms  33.638 ms
 3  border-sf-2-0-4.sirius.com (205.134.230.254)  19.602 ms
    18.508 ms  17.669 ms
 4  bdr1.sntccaidc.firstworld.net (205.134.254.38)  22.128 ms
    22.647 ms  21.314 ms
 5  216.127.93.254 (216.127.93.254)  21.979 ms  19.648 ms  21.174 ms
 6  s8-1-0.ar1.SFO1.gblx.net (204.246.203.229)  24.375 ms 22.802ms  
    24.508 ms
 7  pos2-0-155M.cr1.SFO1.gblx.net (206.132.110.129)  24.500 ms
    21.564 ms  20.935 ms
 8  pos6-0-2488M.cr1.SNV.gblx.net (208.50.169.62)  24.500 ms
     23.878 ms  24.410 ms
 9  pos5-0-0-155M.br3.SNV.gblx.net (206.132.150.30)  25.487 ms
    25.991 ms  25.187 ms
10  sl-gw1-sj-12-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.110.9)  29.963 ms
    25.408 ms  25.643 ms
11  sl-bb20-sj-0-1.sprintlink.net (144.232.3.29)  26.400 ms
    26.180 ms  26.762 ms
12  sl-bb10-tac-6-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.9.214)  44.454 ms
    43.641 ms  42.669 ms
13  sl-bb10-sea-7-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.18.42)  44.401 ms
    43.576 ms  44.807 ms
14  sl-bb12-chi-6-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.18.50)  90.516 ms
    91.333 ms  92.319 ms
15  144.232.10.177 (144.232.10.177)  92.556 ms  91.958 ms  92.228 ms
16  144.232.26.30 (144.232.26.30)  93.588 ms  91.177 ms  92.796 ms
17  sl-bb12-chi-8-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.2)  92.155 ms
    91.407 ms  90.891 ms
18  sl-bb13-chi-8-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.53)  90.595 ms
    92.058 ms  92.156 ms
19  sl-bb3-chi-0-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.10.154)  90.509 ms
    94.841 ms  93.055 ms
20  sl-gw10-chi-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.50.14)  94.024 ms
    94.391 ms  92.237 ms
21  sl-rtent-1-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.52.126)  117.072 ms
    105.377 ms  103.452 ms
22  sage.real-time.com (206.10.253.60)  105.750 ms  105.877 ms
    104.330 ms


uram@cmu.edu
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have faith." - John 20:29


From tanner at real-time.com  Mon Sep  4 11:41:37 2000
From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Continuum screwed up!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009040444310.28321-100000@k6.crackaddict.com>; from karthik@arumugham.com on Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 04:54:12AM -0400
References: <Pine.SOL.3.96L.1000904040322.2638D-100000@unix15.andrew.cmu.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009040444310.28321-100000@k6.crackaddict.com>
Message-ID: <20000904114137.A13936@real-time.com>

Quoting Karthik Arumugham (karthik@arumugham.com):
> It seemed to be a routing problem in SprintLink when I tracerouted it right
> after it died. Died in SprintLink Chicago somewehere, then came back with
> lots of extra hops in the middle a few seconds later, and died some more and
> did the same a couple times while I was playing.

There was (is?) a problem with Sprint, has been for a couple of days. I am have
trouble ticket with them.
-- 
Bob Tanner <tanner@real-time.com>       | Phone : (612)943-8700
http://www.mn-linux.org                 | Fax   : (612)943-8500
Key fingerprint =  6C E9 51 4F D5 3E 4C 66 62 A9 10 E5 35 85 39 D9 


From Sara at OpenHere.com  Tue Sep  5 10:48:30 2000
From: Sara at OpenHere.com (Sara@OpenHere.com)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Your site has been included on OpenHere
Message-ID: <OH2eAE8wx4suliLRCRo00007bf7@openhere.com>

Hi,

Your site was recently submitted to OpenHere.com.  

We have reviewed your site and decided to include it as follows:
Link:  http://www.best.com/~doosh/netrek/netrekFAQ.html
Title:  Netrek FAQ list
Description:  
OpenHere Category:  http://www.openhere.com/games/internet/netrek/


As you are listed as a contact person on the home page
of this site, I am dropping you a quick note to let you
know about your inclusion on OpenHere.

OpenHere is one of the 10 largest index and search sites 
on the Internet and is specifically focused on creating 
resources for the family.  

You can dynamically modify your site's listing at any time,  
or include your site's listing in other categories on OpenHere.com.  

When you modify your site's listing, it is automatically placed at the 
top of the category in which it is included, and is placed first in the 
search engine results for the keywords relating to your site.

To modify, add or delete your listing:

1.  Go to the OpenHere category where your site is listed.
2.  Click on the "Suggest a Site" link.
3.  Follow the instructions for changing your listing.

All of the modifications you submit to OpenHere.com are processed 
in real time.  As soon as you see the response to your submission, 
your site listing should be updated.

OpenHere is frequented by both children and families.  
As a result, www.OpenHere.com does not include links to material 
which is illegal to display to minors.

If you have a question, or need help in any way, please just send me a note.  
Yes, I am a real person!

Sara
www.OpenHere.com
Your key to the Net!





From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep  6 11:04:12 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <8p5p1s$cvi$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>; from ssheldon+removeme@frontiernet.net on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:14AM -0500
References: <8p5p1s$cvi$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <20000906120412.A15578@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:14AM -0500, sheldon wrote:
> http://www.rsasecurity.com/news/pr/000906-1.html
> 
> No more need for a license.  Just have to worry about evil government
> accusing you of selling munitions in your netrek client. :)

Steve got to it before I did.  Interesting.  Only problem for us is that
the waiver applies only for RSA algorithm development after today.  In
order for us to take advantage of this, the RES-RSA package would have to
be re-implemented from scratch.  There is no incentive for us to do this.
RES-RSA is currently not used in a commercial setting, and we are complying
with the RSAREF license already.  We can also export RES-RSA outside of
the US.

Don't fix what ain't broken...

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From doosh at best.com  Wed Sep  6 11:24:00 2000
From: doosh at best.com (Tom Holub)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <20000906120412.A15578@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>; from ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:04:12PM -0400
References: <8p5p1s$cvi$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <20000906120412.A15578@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>
Message-ID: <20000906092400.A29410@shell3.ba.best.com>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:04:12PM -0400, Dave Ahn wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:14AM -0500, sheldon wrote:
> > http://www.rsasecurity.com/news/pr/000906-1.html
> > 
> > No more need for a license.  Just have to worry about evil government
> > accusing you of selling munitions in your netrek client. :)
> 
> Steve got to it before I did.  Interesting.  Only problem for us is that
> the waiver applies only for RSA algorithm development after today.  In
> order for us to take advantage of this, the RES-RSA package would have to
> be re-implemented from scratch.  There is no incentive for us to do this.
> RES-RSA is currently not used in a commercial setting, and we are complying
> with the RSAREF license already.  We can also export RES-RSA outside of
> the US.
> 
> Don't fix what ain't broken...

The patent expires on September 20th anyway.

The patent process is meant to stimulate technological development by
allowing companies/inventors time to recoup the costs of development.  
Don't ask me what I think about academics who use the resources of
a university to help develop a technology, and then go private to
cash in.  Really.
 -Tom

From xyzzy at speakeasy.org  Wed Sep  6 11:46:18 2000
From: xyzzy at speakeasy.org (Trent Piepho)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public
 domain...
In-Reply-To: <20000906092400.A29410@shell3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009060927230.9634-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Tom Holub wrote:
> The patent process is meant to stimulate technological development by
> allowing companies/inventors time to recoup the costs of development.  

The patent process is controlled by intellectual property lawyers.  The
purpose of the patent process is to make money for IP lawyers.

They do this by allowing a company to patent every conceivable thought that
one of their employees has, as well as the unpatented/patented thoughts of
other companies.  Companies then sue each other, with the patents being a mere
excuse created by the patent office's IP lawyers.  These lawsuits allow a
bigger company to beat a smaller company with attrition.  Both companies have
their money drained into the pockets of IP lawyers until the smaller company
runs out.  The IP lawyers, who are the ones running the patent office and
creating IP law, like this system they have created very much.


From ssheldon at sodablue.org  Wed Sep  6 19:47:36 2000
From: ssheldon at sodablue.org (Steve Sheldon)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <20000906092400.A29410@shell3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c01865$37fe9a90$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>

Tom Holub wrote:
>
> The patent expires on September 20th anyway.

Yeah, so? :)

> The patent process is meant to stimulate technological development by
> allowing companies/inventors time to recoup the costs of
> development.
> Don't ask me what I think about academics who use the resources of
> a university to help develop a technology, and then go private to
> cash in.  Really.

My former job when I left Iowa was doing just that.

As part of the ICSS we had spent some 10 years or so creating digital Soil
Survey maps from USDA/SCS data.  We almost had the entire state completed
when I left in '96, and I had georecitified all the data in Arc/Info.

But on the side we had a startup called PMC, which had purchased the digital
maps from the University research and I wrote a couple of software packages
that utilized the soil maps to perform land valuations.

There was some animosity between us and others at the university, but really
we weren't doing anything that anybody else could have done.  The only
difference was that we had expert knowledge on the history of the digital
data we were using and could thus more easily interpret and use it.

Now there was a conflict of interest, but it was because I was put in a
position where I was still working at the University while I was also
working at the startup.  The conflict was that the chief reason i was still
working there was so my boss could pay my health insurance off the
University payroll rather than his own.  I didn't like the working
arrangements, so I left.

Anyway, I don't see anything necessarily wrong with people at a university
taking work done there and cashing in as long as they don't have some unfair
advantage over others.  Meaning, the work that was done at the University
has been published and available to all on equal terms.  If someone happens
to have expert knowledge in the area, that's their business what they do
with their personal knowledge.

The University cannot own someone's knowledge and experience, just as no
Corporation can.  All they can hope to do is provide incentive for that
individual to remain where they are and continue working for them.


From doosh at best.com  Wed Sep  6 20:16:37 2000
From: doosh at best.com (Tom Holub)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <000c01c01865$37fe9a90$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>; from ssheldon@sodablue.org on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:47:36PM -0500
References: <20000906092400.A29410@shell3.ba.best.com> <000c01c01865$37fe9a90$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>
Message-ID: <20000906181637.A2685@shell3.ba.best.com>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:47:36PM -0500, Steve Sheldon wrote:
> 
> Anyway, I don't see anything necessarily wrong with people at a university
> taking work done there and cashing in as long as they don't have some unfair
> advantage over others.  Meaning, the work that was done at the University
> has been published and available to all on equal terms.

My point is, the RSA algorithm was developed "by" the universities of
the professors involved, and thus if anyone has a right to the patents
of that work, it should be the universities.  It's really no different
than using the facilities of your employer to work on an invention; 
it's not your invention if you needed your employer's facilities and
your time on the job to do it.

Certainly I don't have a problem with, say, Eric Brewer going out and
founding Inktomi based on research done at Cal; he's not suing everyone
who wants to make a web crawler.
 -Tom


From ssheldon at sodablue.org  Wed Sep  6 20:33:45 2000
From: ssheldon at sodablue.org (Steve Sheldon)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <20000906181637.A2685@shell3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <001001c0186b$aa77f750$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>


> [mailto:vanilla-list-admin@us.netrek.org]On Behalf Of Tom Holub
>
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:47:36PM -0500, Steve Sheldon wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, I don't see anything necessarily wrong with people
> at a university
> > taking work done there and cashing in as long as they don't
> have some unfair
> > advantage over others.  Meaning, the work that was done at
> the University
> > has been published and available to all on equal terms.
>
> My point is, the RSA algorithm was developed "by" the universities of
> the professors involved, and thus if anyone has a right to the patents
> of that work, it should be the universities.  It's really no different
> than using the facilities of your employer to work on an invention;
> it's not your invention if you needed your employer's facilities and
> your time on the job to do it.

But did the University own the patent?  Was the patent filed for at the time
these individals worked for the University?

I don't know, but I would think if the University could prove that research
which had been done there was the basis for this technology, they could
certainly make that case in court.


> Certainly I don't have a problem with, say, Eric Brewer going out and
> founding Inktomi based on research done at Cal; he's not
> suing everyone
> who wants to make a web crawler.

Ahh, this is more of an issue of the applicability of software patents.

I still cannot figure out who thought it was a good idea to allow for the
patent of mathematical algorithms or business processes.


From xyzzy at speakeasy.org  Wed Sep  6 20:45:40 2000
From: xyzzy at speakeasy.org (Trent Piepho)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public
 domain...
In-Reply-To: <001001c0186b$aa77f750$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061835180.10660-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Steve Sheldon wrote:
> 
> I still cannot figure out who thought it was a good idea to allow for the
> patent of mathematical algorithms or business processes.

The IP lawyers who run the patent office decided it was a good idea.  This way
there are more stupid patents and more lawsuits, thus more profit for the
patent office and the IP lawyers who run it.  It's a blatant conflict of
interest of course, having policy about something as important as patents
decided by those who stand to directly profit from those decisions.  It would
be like letting the president decide how long his term is and what his salary
is.


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep  6 21:04:59 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <001001c0186b$aa77f750$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>; from ssheldon@sodablue.org on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 08:33:45PM -0500
References: <20000906181637.A2685@shell3.ba.best.com> <001001c0186b$aa77f750$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>
Message-ID: <20000906220459.A17570@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 08:33:45PM -0500, Steve Sheldon wrote:
> 
> But did the University own the patent?  Was the patent filed for at the time
> these individals worked for the University?

> I don't know, but I would think if the University could prove that research
> which had been done there was the basis for this technology, they could
> certainly make that case in court.

I'm not 100% sure regarding the specifics, but I would guess that the
inventors (Rivest, Shamir, Adleman) were working for/at MIT at the time
they invented the cryptosystem.  It is clear that MIT owned the patent which
it licensed exclusively to RSA Labs founded by Rivest et al.

I have quite a bit of experience in research & patents, and I can tell you
that this is very common practice, particularly at established tech-transfer
universities like MIT, Stanfard, UCB, etc.  Faculty and research associates
are funded directly by the school or by external companies/agencies (like
NSF, NIH, DARPA) to research new technologies.  If patentable inventions
arise from the research, the university pays for the legal expenses to
get the patents.  If granted, the school, not the inventors, owns the patents.
However, there is usually an inventor's policy to reward the inventors should
the patents generate royalty streams.  To get those royalty streams, the
patents get licensed to companies that can create products around the ideas.
Quite often, those patents are licensed to startups founded by the inventors
of the technology, since they are the ones who best understand the ideas in
the first place.

> I still cannot figure out who thought it was a good idea to allow for the
> patent of mathematical algorithms or business processes.

Patents were designed to serve as catalyst and incentive for innovation.
A lot of economists agree that the current technology boom and business
opportunity in the US are directly related to the free flow of ideas and the
ability to capitalize (make money) on those ideas.  Unfortunately, current
Intellectual Property laws are behind the times, and the PTO is severely
understaffed, underqualified and underbudgeted to handle the volume of patent
applications.  It's a bloody mess.  One thing's for sure, as someone else
pointed out.  IP lawyers are rolling in some big dough.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep  6 21:17:55 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:04 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061835180.10660-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>; from xyzzy@speakeasy.org on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:45:40PM -0700
References: <001001c0186b$aa77f750$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com> <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061835180.10660-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20000906221755.B17570@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:45:40PM -0700, Trent Piepho wrote:
> 
> The IP lawyers who run the patent office decided it was a good idea.  This
> way there are more stupid patents and more lawsuits, thus more profit for the
> patent office and the IP lawyers who run it.  It's a blatant conflict of
> interest of course, having policy about something as important as patents
> decided by those who stand to directly profit from those decisions.  It would
> be like letting the president decide how long his term is and what his salary
> is.

This is incorrect.  The patents are approved by agents at the PTO, not by
IP lawyers.  The PTO generates quite a lot of revenue, but that cash is
redirected by Uncle Sam for other uses.  That is a big reason why the PTO
is understaffed by mostly overworked and technically unsavvy people who
do their best to handle the huge number of patent applications on ideas they
often don't fully understand.  It's amazing what kind of stuff gets through
that office.  I believe the PTO is about to get another budget cut, so look
for things to worsten.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From xyzzy at speakeasy.org  Wed Sep  6 21:43:36 2000
From: xyzzy at speakeasy.org (Trent Piepho)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:05 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public
 domain...
In-Reply-To: <20000906221755.B17570@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061932260.10814-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Dave Ahn wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:45:40PM -0700, Trent Piepho wrote:
> > 
> > The IP lawyers who run the patent office decided it was a good idea.  This
> > way there are more stupid patents and more lawsuits, thus more profit for the
> > patent office and the IP lawyers who run it.  It's a blatant conflict of
> > interest of course, having policy about something as important as patents
> > decided by those who stand to directly profit from those decisions.  It would
> > be like letting the president decide how long his term is and what his salary
> > is.
> 
> This is incorrect.  The patents are approved by agents at the PTO, not by
> IP lawyers.  The PTO generates quite a lot of revenue, but that cash is

I'm not talking about the patent examiners who rubber stamp the patents, but
rather people like Q. Todd Dickinson, director of the PTO and an IP lawyer.

It people like him who are responsible for the "patent everything, let the
courts sort it out" policy of the PTO.  It's also people like him who benefit
most from this policy.


From ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu  Wed Sep  6 22:20:35 2000
From: ahn at vec.wfubmc.edu (Dave Ahn)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:05 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061932260.10814-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>; from xyzzy@speakeasy.org on Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:43:36PM -0700
References: <20000906221755.B17570@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu> <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061932260.10814-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20000906232035.A17953@cecum.vec.wfubmc.edu>

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 07:43:36PM -0700, Trent Piepho wrote:
> 
> I'm not talking about the patent examiners who rubber stamp the patents, but
> rather people like Q. Todd Dickinson, director of the PTO and an IP lawyer.
> 
> It people like him who are responsible for the "patent everything, let the
> courts sort it out" policy of the PTO.  It's also people like him who benefit
> most from this policy.

The PTO doesn't have much choice.  Current backlog results in a 2-4 year
wait after filing date for a decision.  A thorough examination would
mean even longer waits, and that would make the entire patent process
less useful.

Also, most patents these days are filed for the sole purpose of protection
against litigation as opposed to starting one.  Such patents are
practically unenforceable...and therefore worthless.

-- 
Dave Ahn | ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu | Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.  Try to live your life
so that when you die, you will rejoice and the world will cry.  -1/2 jj^2

From ssheldon at sodablue.org  Wed Sep  6 23:19:18 2000
From: ssheldon at sodablue.org (Steve Sheldon)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:52:05 2005
Subject: [Vanilla List] Re: [rec.games.netrek] RSA release to public domain...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10009061932260.10814-100000@xyzzy.dsl.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <000101c01882$cab0bf90$2000000a@win2k.sodablue.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:vanilla-list-admin@us.netrek.org]On Behalf Of Trent Piepho
>

BTW, Thank you Dave for the article clearing up the specifics on the RSA
patent and how Universities go about profiting from the research.  I suspect
you are correct, and I suspect that even though RSA labs benefitted, so did
MIT.

> I'm not talking about the patent examiners who rubber stamp
> the patents, but
> rather people like Q. Todd Dickinson, director of the PTO and
> an IP lawyer.
>
> It people like him who are responsible for the "patent
> everything, let the
> courts sort it out" policy of the PTO.  It's also people like
> him who benefit
> most from this policy.

I have read some interviews with Dickinson, and if I understand their
attitude correctly, basically what they are saying is unless it's something
really really blatantly stupid or poorly worded they're going to rubber
stamp it.

If you read some of the patents which have gotten publicity as being stupid,
they actually are often good ideas, it's just rather difficult with software
sometimes to determine if they are obvious.  Of course part of this is that
it might be 4 years from the time the patent was filed to when you hear of
it in the press, and by then yes it is an obvious idea because everybody is
doing it.

Personally I don't think the RSA encryption idea was obvious, I know it
would take me a couple of hours to sit down and study it to really
understand the math behind it. [Actually since the last math class I took
was 10 years ago it'd probably take a couple months of study :)]

On the other hand, uhh British Telecom's patent of hyperlinks?  Yeah, it's a
good idea, but this basically dates back to the original GUI as being
blatantly obvious.

Dickinson is just admitting that they would rather err on the side of
optimism.  That is, their attitude is that the best arena to determine
whether a patent is valid or not is in the civil courts, where each side can
bring in their expert witnesses and bash it out.

It's hard to say.  I think Dickinson is correct in what he's doing.  I would
rather a decision like that be made by a group of peers in the industry in
an open forum than behind closed doors by some person who may or may not
understand the patent or the history of the technology.

On the other hand, I'm still not sure about software patents.  I honestly
think something as complex as RSA is unique and takes enough effort to
figure it out that it deserves some limited form of protection.  I don't
think the idea of a pivot year as a Y2K strategy does.

From Sara at OpenHere.com  Tue Sep  5 10:48:31 2000
From: Sara at OpenHere.com (Sara@OpenHere.com)
Date: Wed Jan 12 00:53:27 2005
Subject: [META] Your site has been included on OpenHere
Message-ID: <OH2bQGRwgCAFQCpOpmS00007bf8@openhere.com>

Hi,

Your site was recently submitted to OpenHere.com.  

We have reviewed your site and decided to include it as follows:
Link:  http://www.best.com/~doosh/netrek/netrekFAQ.html
Title:  Netrek FAQ list
Description:  
OpenHere Category:  http://www.openhere.com/games/internet/netrek/


As you are listed as a contact person on the home page
of this site, I am dropping you a quick note to let you
know about your inclusion on OpenHere.

OpenHere is one of the 10 largest index and search sites 
on the Internet and is specifically focused on creating 
resources for the family.  

You can dynamically modify your site's listing at any time,  
or include your site's listing in other categories on OpenHere.com.  

When you modify your site's listing, it is automatically placed at the 
top of the category in which it is included, and is placed first in the 
search engine results for the keywords relating to your site.

To modify, add or delete your listing:

1.  Go to the OpenHere category where your site is listed.
2.  Click on the "Suggest a Site" link.
3.  Follow the instructions for changing your listing.

All of the modifications you submit to OpenHere.com are processed 
in real time.  As soon as you see the response to your submission, 
your site listing should be updated.

OpenHere is frequented by both children and families.  
As a result, www.OpenHere.com does not include links to material 
which is illegal to display to minors.

If you have a question, or need help in any way, please just send me a note.  
Yes, I am a real person!

Sara
www.OpenHere.com
Your key to the Net!