Sounds cool. What is your name? Zach On 4/7/07, ChronosWS <chronosws at comcast.net> wrote: > I'll be on the IRC channel. I'd like to discuss how to move the Windows > client (and by proxy other clients) forward. In brief though, these are the > things I think we should do, in the order I'd recommend doing them. > > 1. Create a Main Menu/Title screen, with access to options, etc. > 2. Integrate the external tools (configuration, cambot, tutorial) into the > main game exe, accessible from the main menu > 3. Ensure that the UI conforms to Windows standards. Namely, that the main > game windows have normal controls (close, minimize) and responds properly to > them. > 4. Integrate the metaserver UI into the game UI as the first screen you hit > when you start, rather than a separate window which pops up. > 5. Examine the use of keyboard input on the login screen. For example, ESC > should be used to quit the game (or bring up a 'Really Quit?' box) and a > more standard username/password UI should be implemented. > > I believe these items will go a long ways towards making the game feel more > like a cohesive product than a scattering of applications and > poorly-behaving windows apps. Later on I'd start to tackle some of the more > drastic changes: > > 1. Scrap the UI code, at least for Windows. Not only is it messy, but it's > not flexible enough to allow the proper use of modern UI elements and > design. Enable more significant 'themeing' capabilities. > 2. Revamp the graphics system to use a mechanism more suited to modern day > graphics expectations that would allow us to significantly up-rate the > graphics in the future. Probably something 3D. > 3. Update the network protocol (along with the server side) to allow > event-based network updates. Along with this would be client-side > extrapolation of movement for ships based on the last known speed/heading, > which would lead to MUCH smoother graphics. (this is non-trivial though > because of things like torp wobble and latency) > 4. Consider if we could translate Netrek to a console, like the Xbox 360 on > Xbox Live. This would be some serious work because there are issues > relating to input and communication which, at first look, are not compatible > with XBox capabilities. However, there is a substantial market there for > potential new gamers, and it may be worth tapping in to. Something to think > about. > > For Windows development, I would suggest moving to C#. The reasons are > thus: > 1. .NET is the future of programming for the Windows platform. > 2. C# is very easy to pick up if you have done much programming in C++ > 3. It is very easy to develop in C#, MUCH less error prone than C++. > 3. The development environment for it is mature now with all the tools > you'll need. > 4. C# is portable to other platforms using Mono > 5. The development tools for C# are free from Microsoft on Windows, and free > for Mono on the Unixes. > 6. If we do elect to make an Xbox 360 version, C#, vis-à-vis the XNA Game > Studio, allows simultaneous development for Xbox and Windows with > essentially no code changes. > > XNA Game Studio Express may be found here: > > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/aa937795.aspx > > You'll need Visual C# Express first (even if you have Visual Studio 2005), > which you can get here: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/download/ > > I would be more than happy to talk with anyone on IRC or here about issues > with C# and instruct those who have not yet had an opportunity to learn it. > As someone who spent 10 years doing professional C and C++ development for > Linux and Windows, I can confidently say that moving to C# (or adding it to > your repertoire) is something you will not regret. > > Oh, and P.S., I am willing to lead this effort on the Windows side of > things. > > -----Original Message----- > From: netrek-dev-bounces at us.netrek.org > [mailto:netrek-dev-bounces at us.netrek.org] On Behalf Of William Balcerski > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:42 AM > To: Netrek Development Mailing List > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] Set a fitting subject > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007, ChronosWS wrote: > > > I'm not a big fan of over-organization, but there are common-sense, low > cost > > steps which can be taken to facilitate a cohesive development strategy. > The > > wiki is a joke, honestly, as it's really just a collection of bullet > points > > with no one having bothered to distill or synthesize the ideas into a plan > > of any sort. > > > The wiki is a reference, not intended to be a todo list. > > > If the group is really too lazy to bother to log into a forum (you know, > add > > a bookmark to your browser, it will remember who you are, just click it > and > > you are logged in) then may I humbly suggest that the group may not have > > what it takes to really reinvigorate the game to the level which you have > > professed to desire. It's a serious task which is proposed, and even > though > > we are part-time developers on it does not mean we should be lazy about > > doing what is needed to pursue that goal in earnest. > > > I fail to see why we need yet another forum when we have 2 active mailing > lists, 1 code commit mailing list, 1 dead mailing list, IRC, > rec.games.netrek, and the forums at playnetrek.org. > > > My goal here is to provide a means for organization and a mechanism by > which > > the leader(s) of it can communicate the actual plan and have that plan be > > readily available to all developers who will be referring to it during > their > > development process. Having a single point of access for discussion and > > decisions means there is no need to know about mailing lists, wikis and > docs > > in source control as separate potential locations of information - it's > all > > in one place, easily found, easily searched, and if people are doing their > > jobs, mostly up to date (and if the conversations are included in the > > forums, then even out-of-date information can be corrected by review.) > > > There is a single point of access for discussion, it's the IRC channel > Quozl mentioned. Every active developer (except the mactrek guy) uses it. > And he would have benefitted from hanging out there (RSA fiasco anyone? > :P). > > Perhaps I should lay out the state of netrek development. There are 4 > "active" developers working on code, besides akb who is working on the web > site. There are also some people who contribute once every few months but > I wouldn't call them active. Oh and I forgot the guy who ported COW to > a Nokia, but that was only in the last week :). > > One of the devs (Narcis) does Mac client only - he works alone, no one > else is up to speed on Mac development. > Quozl, Karthik, and myself work on server development - we use IRC to pass > ideas/code back and forth. In my experience, rarely have I needed email > to discuss the code, as the guru (aka Quozl) is around frequently. > I also work on the Window client, I work alone because no one else is up > to speed on Windows development. > > We have ample infrastructure for communicating. We have mechanisms for > task assignments (server has several TODO lists such as PROJECTS and > BUGS). I have another TODO list for the client. More developers are > welcome. The barrier to joining development is low (server) to moderate > (client). People on IRC are around to answer any questions to help > developers. I would be thrilled to have another Windows developer. Will > it be you? ;) > > > How far are you willing to go to bring this game to that huge pool of > > potential players? > > > We have paid advertising (thanks Joe), we have a high google ranking > (thanks Joe again), we have a list of ideas: > http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/MarketIdeas > Any other suggestions on what we should be doing? > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > netrek-dev mailing list > netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > netrek-dev mailing list > netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev >