From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 1 22:13:28 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:13:28 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Source Control, Update Message-ID: <20080902031328.GA31071@us.netrek.org> A reminder about source control ... if you are a developer and expect your patches to be merged, you *must* engage in the process. If your patch is to one of the distributed repositories, then either forward your patch to the mailing list, or publish your repository and ask for it to be listed in the REPOSITORIES file. I merge from these semi-regularly. There are no outstanding merges. If you have a repository that is not listed in REPOSITORIES then I won't be checking it. If you find that a developer hasn't merged from your repository for a while, send a mail. The central repository on netrek.org is managed by Stephen Thorne (aka Jerub) on behalf of the project. Context: an IRC conversation was relayed to me which contained assertions that I felt were false. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 1 22:17:39 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:17:39 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver Message-ID: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> At the moment the metaservers accept new server listings from anybody who wants to set up a server. It has been this way for many years. I'm not sure this is such a good idea, given the current size of games and the rate of play. What do people think ... 1. lock down the metaservers so that new servers cannot be listed, 2. add a way to accept new servers, 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open for existing servers. This is just for discussion purposes. The infrastructure team would benefit from knowing what people think. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 03:49:49 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:49:49 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: When is the last time a new server was added (not counting when pickled changed from pickled.psychosis.net to pickled.netrek.org)? It doesn't seem like this happens very often but I can see how it could be abused and at least temporarily hurt games. I would lean towards closing access and formalizing some sort of registration process for future legitimate servers which seems of a low probability unless we get a large influx of new regular players. Zach From jrd at gerdesas.com Tue Sep 2 04:42:10 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:42:10 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080902094210.GB20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 04:49:49AM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: > When is the last time a new server was added (not counting when > pickled changed from pickled.psychosis.net to pickled.netrek.org)? It softoffice.net, before that the 3 bot servers + hockey server. I don't recall exactly /when/ these servers were added, but I seem to recall softoffice mid-spring and the other 4 roughly a year ago. > doesn't seem like this happens very often but I can see how it could > be abused and at least temporarily hurt games. I would lean towards > closing access and formalizing some sort of registration process for > future legitimate servers which seems of a low probability unless we > get a large influx of new regular players. Sadly, the days of multiple servers all with wait queues is long past. Back when netrek was at it's peak new servers were welcome as it permitted more people to play without needing to wait for slots to become available; this is no longer the case. As it is now we have issues with not being able to maintain t-mode on pickled due to warped's presence on the metas, compounded by the fact that as soon as one slot logs into warped it starts to attract newbies which takes away from t-mode on pickled. I've been tracking server utilization for the past couple of weeks (I wish I had done this earlier, but the project kept getting tossed on the back-burner for various reasons) and the effect is evident. Cacti preview mode for server usage on pickled, continuum and warped is available at: http://cacti.gerdesas.com:43451/graph_view.php Currently there is no side-by-side preview for all servers visible at once; I change the tree configuration to do so when I have a few free moments. Click on the server name to view utilization graphs; click on the graph to see daily, weekly, monthly and yearly averages or choose the time scale from the "Presets" drop-down box. I've long been a proponent of closing off open solicits and forcing would-be server admins to go through some type of official channel so that the problems of player-base splits, the potential for harm of bot servers, etc could be discussed with them prior to allowing their servers access to be listed on the metaservers. Openness is all well and good, but the potential for harm with a player-base as small as we currently have is too great in my opinion to continue the open-solicit model that is currently in place. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080902/27a8f0f9/attachment.pgp From jrd at gerdesas.com Tue Sep 2 05:14:33 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 05:14:33 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902094210.GB20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902094210.GB20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <20080902101433.GC20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 04:42:10AM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote: > > Currently there is no side-by-side preview for all > servers visible at once; I change the tree configuration > to do so when I have a few free moments. Click on the server > name to view utilization graphs; click on the graph to see > daily, weekly, monthly and yearly averages or choose the time > scale from the "Presets" drop-down box. This has been corrected to display all 3 server's graphs; you can choose a different time-scale from the "Presets" drop-down and it will re-display the graphs with the chosen time-scale instead of having to do it individually for each server. You can still click on any of the graphs to see hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly averages. There is an issue with averages for continuum; I believe it is due to such low server utilization. I will need to look into that another time. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080902/1460c9f4/attachment.pgp From list2rado at gmx.de Tue Sep 2 05:44:41 2008 From: list2rado at gmx.de (Rado S) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:44:41 +0200 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080902104440.GA22046@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> =- James Cameron wrote on Tue 2.Sep'08 at 13:17:39 +1000 -= > 1. lock down the metaservers so that new servers cannot be listed, (the following "you"s are not directed personally to James, but a general attribution to sympathisers with the given ideas) This assumes that when the choices are limited to less preferred choices, then players will fall back to the remaining types available. This might be true for some, but not for all those sitting on or looking for non-bronco servers, so instead of catching those you lose them altogether. The numbers for either case ... are to be researched, but I'd consider it a pity to lose those jumping off altogether and turning to WoW, Quake and the like. Just for curiosity ... if the numbers would show that non-Bronco is actually preferred over Bronco, would you gather around non-Bronco and shutdown Bronco for the sake of best survival chances for the bigger group? Would you quit Bronco and turn to whatever non-Bronco would be the #1? Those answering "no" please explain why the non-Bronco'ians should then change when you wouldn't. > 2. add a way to accept new servers, Depends on the way. > 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open for > existing servers. Not without fixing metas code. =- Zach Uram wrote on Tue 2.Sep'08 at 4:49:49 -0400 -= > I would lean towards closing access and formalizing some sort of > registration process for future legitimate servers which seems of > a low probability unless we get a large influx of new regular > players. Define 'legitimate'. -- ? Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give. From quozl at us.netrek.org Tue Sep 2 06:15:39 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 21:15:39 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902104440.GA22046@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902104440.GA22046@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: <20080902111539.GA5377@us.netrek.org> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 12:44:41PM +0200, Rado S wrote: > This assumes that when the choices are limited to less preferred > choices, then players will fall back to the remaining types > available. > This might be true for some, but not for all those sitting on or > looking for non-bronco servers, so instead of catching those you > lose them altogether. Yes, I agree. > The numbers for either case ... are to be researched, but I'd > consider it a pity to lose those jumping off altogether and turning > to WoW, Quake and the like. Yes, that's what we have ... a moderate stream of new players who try three servers, and very few of them stay. Perhaps they've been emotionally harmed by WoW or Quake. ;-) But we do get a stream of new players ... and the key is to have them stay. They improve over time. They might not improve as fast as we would like, but we have no other real choice. > Just for curiosity ... if the numbers would show that non-Bronco is > actually preferred over Bronco, would you gather around non-Bronco > and shutdown Bronco for the sake of best survival chances for the > bigger group? Would you quit Bronco and turn to whatever non-Bronco > would be the #1? I would, yes. Others might not, but we can do without them. Besides, it isn't Bronco any longer, there has been massive change since Bronco shutdown. Yes, what we have on pickled and continuum is conservative compared to warped, and even more conservative compared to paradise, but until we have 95% of play happening on warped or paradise I don't feel like learning the new rules there. If it's the only Netrek in town, I'll play it. > > 2. add a way to accept new servers, > > Depends on the way. So you're saying that whether you agree with the idea depends on the process for adding a new server to the metaserver? Okay. What process would you prefer? Is it really that important to your acceptance of the idea? It isn't important to my acceptance of the idea. > > 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open for > > existing servers. > > Not without fixing metas code. No, it isn't that difficult. The policy code has it built in, just not enabled. It's a policy issue, not a coding issue. Even if it was a coding issue, that doesn't relate to the primary idea I've asked for comment on. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From list2rado at gmx.de Tue Sep 2 06:46:44 2008 From: list2rado at gmx.de (Rado S) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:46:44 +0200 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902111539.GA5377@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080902104440.GA22046@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> <20080902111539.GA5377@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080902114644.GB22046@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> =- James Cameron wrote on Tue 2.Sep'08 at 21:15:39 +1000 -= > > Just for curiosity {...} Would you quit Bronco and turn to > > whatever non-Bronco would be the #1? > > I would, yes. Others might not, but we can do without them. > {...} If it's the only Netrek in town, I'll play it. Hmm, sure? *waiting for their opinions* I guess you're still an exception (currently, which doesn't mean that in times of desparation others wouldn't change their mind, too). > Yes, that's what we have ... a moderate stream of new players who > try three servers, and very few of them stay. What are the reasons that this the case? And by which numbers per reason? I.e. how can we know what the most damaging reason is to take care of it? And what the most promising solution is? > {...} but until we have 95% of play happening on warped or > paradise I don't feel like learning the new rules there. Fair enough, though this doesn't mean newbies will like the current leader by mass just because it has the most players and stick to it just for the same reason. It still has to mean _more_ fun for its own sake than direct rivals, be they in the Netrek family or outside. When newbies chose given alternatives, then it just isn't the preferred taste of game of modern newbies. Closing the alternatives in the family down, ... see previous comments. > > > 2. add a way to accept new servers, > > > > Depends on the way. > > What process would you prefer? No idea, haven't thought about it before, you made the suggestion, so I assumed you had already something on your mind. > Is it really that important to your acceptance of the idea? I can imagine bad solutions. Like leaving it all up to John's whim alone. :) > > > 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open > > > for existing servers. > > > > Not without fixing metas code. > > No, it isn't that difficult. The policy code has it built in, just > not enabled. It's a policy issue, not a coding issue. Even if it > was a coding issue, that doesn't relate to the primary idea I've > asked for comment on. Bad implementions of policy enforcement can cause harm, too. (see our last run in, there have been back then, I'm not aware they've been patched in the meantime) But you're right, policy decisions first. I'm glad we can agree once in a while. So, assuming policy could be enforced and a "functional but fair" policy installed, I'd prefer it to stay open. ("fair" ... whatever this means) -- ? Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give. From joe at romulus.netrek.org Tue Sep 2 08:54:09 2008 From: joe at romulus.netrek.org (Joe Evango) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 06:54:09 -0700 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: I feel having the metaservers open so anyone with a dsl connection can list a server is a bad idea. I go with option 2, to have some type of approval process before a server can be listed. -Joe _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080902/83ced38d/attachment.htm From msucka0xff at programmer.net Tue Sep 2 10:43:34 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:43:34 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver Message-ID: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Cameron" > To: netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 13:17:39 +1000 > > > At the moment the metaservers accept new server listings from anybody > who wants to set up a server. It has been this way for many years. > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Given that clients point to a single metaserver by default, locking would prohibit new development features from being show-cased in big ways. What would be even better is if I could put a new server on the metaserver list, and explain the new cool feature on netrek.org directly without needing extra steps, e.g. sending email to web-news at us.netrek.org. > I'm not sure this is such a good idea, given the current size of games > and the rate of play. Everything done up to present clearly hasn't improved this. > What do people think ... > > 1. lock down the metaservers so that new servers cannot be listed, > > 2. add a way to accept new servers, > > 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open for > existing servers. > > This is just for discussion purposes. The infrastructure team would > benefit from knowing what people think. > 1. Leave unchanged. -bd -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From list2rado at gmx.de Tue Sep 2 10:55:37 2008 From: list2rado at gmx.de (Rado S) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 17:55:37 +0200 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080902155537.GB23845@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> =- . . wrote on Tue 2.Sep'08 at 7:43:34 -0800 -= > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Yes, but ... - phantom servers listed by bad meta code or policy is bad. - real servers without quick-response admin (1,2,3d, up to policy) can become bad. > Given that clients point to a single metaserver by default, I believed it was round robin behind metaserver.netrek.org. if not, maybe this could be put up (or back). -- ? Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give. From msucka0xff at programmer.net Tue Sep 2 14:33:12 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:33:12 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver Message-ID: <20080902193313.65E2A16429D@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Cool! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Dennison" > To: "Netrek Development Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver > Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 05:14:33 -0500 > > > On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 04:42:10AM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote: > > > > Currently there is no side-by-side preview for all > > servers visible at once; I change the tree configuration > > to do so when I have a few free moments. Click on the server > > name to view utilization graphs; click on the graph to see > > daily, weekly, monthly and yearly averages or choose the time > > scale from the "Presets" drop-down box. > > This has been corrected to display all 3 server's graphs; > you can choose a different time-scale from the "Presets" > drop-down and it will re-display the graphs with the > chosen time-scale instead of having to do it individually > for each server. You can still click on any of the > graphs to see hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly > averages. > > There is an issue with averages for continuum; I believe it > is due to such low server utilization. I will need to > look into that another time. > > > > > > John -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From billbalcerski at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 14:48:02 2008 From: billbalcerski at gmail.com (Bill Balcerski) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:48:02 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <45ab86180809021248v5c4d2898jaf01102148cb4e08@mail.gmail.com> I say leave things the way they are. Perhaps add something to the metaservers HOWTO that comes with vanilla source, something to the effect of "email metaserver maintainers X, Y, and Z if you are not active in the development community and would like to list a server on the metaserver", to encourage more communication between server people and metaserver people. This should help with the issue of people putting up bad, laggy servers without really being involved with the dev community. There's also the issue of metaserver being open to the attack vector of solicits from multiple servers on multiple IPs, but it hasn't happened and probably never will at this point. Bill From quozl at us.netrek.org Tue Sep 2 18:18:36 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:18:36 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <45ab86180809021248v5c4d2898jaf01102148cb4e08@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <45ab86180809021248v5c4d2898jaf01102148cb4e08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080902231836.GA7371@us.netrek.org> On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 03:48:02PM -0400, Bill Balcerski wrote: > I say leave things the way they are. Perhaps add something to the > metaservers HOWTO that comes with vanilla source, something to the > effect of "email metaserver maintainers X, Y, and Z if you are not > active in the development community and would like to list a server on > the metaserver", to encourage more communication between server > people and metaserver people. This should help with the issue of > people putting up bad, laggy servers without really being involved > with the dev community. Hmm, yes, good idea. I've pushed a patch, also attached. Comment welcome. (Also added reference to the delisting tool.) -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: metaserver-advisory.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 1483 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080903/002851b2/attachment.patch From msucka0xff at programmer.net Wed Sep 3 12:40:42 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:40:42 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support Message-ID: <20080903174043.A546816429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Folks, I was discussing a new possible combination of instant messaging integration thru inclusion of a Jabber server running and integrated with the Netrek Server on the IRC channel, but based on how the dialog was going I don't think any one really understood what I was saying. The core idea is to include a broadcast feature that sends dialog messages via XMPP (aka Jabber protocol) to a Jabber server, Openfire*, in particular this does not "replace" the current server to client messaging system in any way, but instead *adds* a new way to send and receive netrek communications. The reasons why I would do this include: 1. Real time web chat conversation broadcasts 2. Use of instant messaging clients for communications 3. VoIP integration support As time permits I would like to work on an experimental server that includes this function, as well as web game broadcasts, elimination for fork calls, instant replays, and improving web based clients with 3d. -bd * Openfire is an open source Jabber server developed by jive Software. Information is posted on http://www.igniterealtime.org -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From list2rado at gmx.de Wed Sep 3 12:52:00 2008 From: list2rado at gmx.de (Rado S) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:52:00 +0200 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support In-Reply-To: <20080903174043.A546816429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080903174043.A546816429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080903175200.GB27939@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> =- . . wrote on Wed 3.Sep'08 at 9:40:42 -0800 -= > I was discussing a new possible combination of instant messaging > integration thru inclusion of a Jabber server running and > integrated with the Netrek Server on the IRC channel, Why not a simple IRC client? > 3. VoIP integration support Ugh, Okeeey... ;) -- ? Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give. From msucka0xff at programmer.net Wed Sep 3 13:02:20 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 10:02:20 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support Message-ID: <20080903180221.649E9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rado S" > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:52:00 +0200 > > > =- . . wrote on Wed 3.Sep'08 at 9:40:42 -0800 -= > > > I was discussing a new possible combination of instant messaging > > integration thru inclusion of a Jabber server running and > > integrated with the Netrek Server on the IRC channel, > > Why not a simple IRC client? Larger capacity for accessibility and adoption, e.g. would be available to Trillian, Miranda, Psi, Pidgin etc chat clients. Format of chat is different. > > > 3. VoIP integration support > > Ugh, Okeeey... ;) 4. Also adds support to accessibility for the blind. (!) -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From jrd at gerdesas.com Wed Sep 3 13:37:10 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:37:10 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support In-Reply-To: <20080903174043.A546816429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080903174043.A546816429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080903183709.GD20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message lines re-wrapped at 76 columns. On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 09:40:42AM -0800, . . wrote: > Folks, > > I was discussing a new possible combination of instant messaging > integration thru inclusion of a Jabber server running and integrated > with the Netrek Server on the IRC channel, but based on how the dialog > was going I don't think any one really understood what I was saying. The > core idea is to include a broadcast feature that sends dialog messages via > XMPP (aka Jabber protocol) to a Jabber server, Openfire*, in particular > this does not "replace" the current server to client messaging system > in any way, but instead *adds* a new way to send and receive netrek > communications. The reasons why I would do this include: > > 1. Real time web chat conversation broadcasts > 2. Use of instant messaging clients for communications Don't we want people to read in the game and not be forced to flip back and forth between other windows, loosing the flow of the game while doing so? > 3. VoIP integration support People fully understood what you were saying. People also pointed out various flaws in your reasoning for Jabber. * It was pointed out the no clients other than Google Talk support VoIP; and that even Google Talk does not use XMPP for voice, but rather only uses it for path negotiation for a Peer to Peer session. * It was pointed out that Mumble was determined to be a better fit. * It was also pointed out by various people that voice-chat would be a good addition; but that using Jabber would be impractical. * You had stated that "igniterealtime.com provides an asterisk plugin". Err, *what*? Asterisk is /definitely/ over-kill. > As time permits I would like to work on an experimental server that > includes this function, as well as web game broadcasts, elimination for > fork calls, instant replays, and improving web based clients with 3d. Have at it. although it has been pointed out that your elimination of fork() calls is pointless. Your assertion that fork() adds a large overhead in game entry has been proved false by both James and myself. But knock yourself out. > * Openfire is an open source Jabber server developed by jive > Software. Information is posted on http://www.igniterealtime.org Java; when the rest of the server base is written in C, with a few small shell and perl scripts throw in; Jabber's footprint is ridiculously large, more so by the fact that it requires SQL support, either with it's embedded database or one of the support externals (mysql, oracle, ms-sql, postgres, etc). Seriously, don't you think this over-kill for the basic functionality that is desired, namely in-game voice communications? Jabber might be a nice package and I'm not really knocking it, but the feature set it offers are unlikely to be of much use in Netrek. My opinion? Work on something that's actually beneficial to the community, like Mumble; or a training server; or whatever. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080903/50cdcb19/attachment.pgp From msucka0xff at programmer.net Wed Sep 3 14:48:24 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:48:24 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support Message-ID: <20080903194824.E1F0C164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John R. Dennison" > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:37:10 -0500 > > > > 1. Real time web chat conversation broadcasts > > 2. Use of instant messaging clients for communications > > Don't we want people to read in the game and not be forced to > flip back and forth between other windows, loosing the flow of > the game while doing so? I thought what I typed was clear, but it is apparent you do not fully understand. > > > 3. VoIP integration support > > People fully understood what you were saying. People also > pointed out various flaws in your reasoning for Jabber. > > * It was pointed out the no clients other than Google Talk > support VoIP; and that even Google Talk does not use XMPP > for voice, but rather only uses it for path negotiation > for a Peer to Peer session. This is false. Miranda supports VoIP via SIP plugin. Jerub was probably referring to Voice calls to other Google Talk users http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html > * It was pointed out that Mumble was determined to be a better > fit. Go ahead and fit it in. > * It was also pointed out by various people that voice-chat > would be a good addition; but that using Jabber would be > impractical. How would it be impractical? > * You had stated that "igniterealtime.com provides an asterisk > plugin". Err, *what*? Asterisk is /definitely/ over-kill. > > As time permits I would like to work on an experimental server that > > includes this function, as well as web game broadcasts, elimination for > > fork calls, instant replays, and improving web based clients with 3d. > > Have at it. although it has been pointed out that your elimination > of fork() calls is pointless. Your assertion that fork() adds > a large overhead in game entry has been proved false by both > James and myself. But knock yourself out. Nothing was proved. Instead reasoning was used, which does not yield experimentally produced evidence. You have got to get in to the real world at some point in your existence. > > > * Openfire is an open source Jabber server developed by jive > > Software. Information is posted on http://www.igniterealtime.org > > Java; when the rest of the server base is written in C, > with a few small shell and perl scripts throw in; Jabber's > footprint is ridiculously large, more so by the fact that it > requires SQL support, either with it's embedded database > or one of the support externals (mysql, oracle, ms-sql, > postgres, etc). Why would anyone besides yourself be concerned about this? > > Seriously, don't you think this over-kill for the basic > functionality that is desired, namely in-game voice > communications? Seriously. No. > My opinion? Work on something that's actually beneficial > to the community, like Mumble; or a training server; or > whatever. Next time you want to suggest "knock yourself out", please you go ahead. That would save me from responding to pointless dribble. Also if you think you're the only contributor, you've got your head up your ass further than anyone else could imagine. -bd -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From jrd at gerdesas.com Wed Sep 3 14:53:53 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:53:53 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support In-Reply-To: <20080903194824.E1F0C164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080903194824.E1F0C164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080903195353.GF20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> I am not going to get into a pissing contest with Jay Corrales (sp?), aka mp3, aka bob dang, aka dogmeat, aka msucka0xff, aka whatever other handles he chooses to hide behind. John On Wed, Sep 03, 2008 at 11:48:24AM -0800, . . wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John R. Dennison" > > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] Netrek Server Instant Messaging Support > > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 13:37:10 -0500 > > > > > > > 1. Real time web chat conversation broadcasts > > > 2. Use of instant messaging clients for communications > > > > Don't we want people to read in the game and not be forced to > > flip back and forth between other windows, loosing the flow of > > the game while doing so? > > I thought what I typed was clear, but it is apparent you do not fully understand. > > > > > > 3. VoIP integration support > > > > People fully understood what you were saying. People also > > pointed out various flaws in your reasoning for Jabber. > > > > * It was pointed out the no clients other than Google Talk > > support VoIP; and that even Google Talk does not use XMPP > > for voice, but rather only uses it for path negotiation > > for a Peer to Peer session. > > This is false. Miranda supports VoIP via SIP plugin. Jerub was probably referring to Voice calls to other Google Talk users http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html > > > * It was pointed out that Mumble was determined to be a better > > fit. > > Go ahead and fit it in. > > > * It was also pointed out by various people that voice-chat > > would be a good addition; but that using Jabber would be > > impractical. > > How would it be impractical? > > > * You had stated that "igniterealtime.com provides an asterisk > > plugin". Err, *what*? Asterisk is /definitely/ over-kill. > > > > > As time permits I would like to work on an experimental server that > > > includes this function, as well as web game broadcasts, elimination for > > > fork calls, instant replays, and improving web based clients with 3d. > > > > Have at it. although it has been pointed out that your elimination > > of fork() calls is pointless. Your assertion that fork() adds > > a large overhead in game entry has been proved false by both > > James and myself. But knock yourself out. > > Nothing was proved. Instead reasoning was used, which does not yield experimentally produced evidence. You have got to get in to the real world at some point in your existence. > > > > > > * Openfire is an open source Jabber server developed by jive > > > Software. Information is posted on http://www.igniterealtime.org > > > > Java; when the rest of the server base is written in C, > > with a few small shell and perl scripts throw in; Jabber's > > footprint is ridiculously large, more so by the fact that it > > requires SQL support, either with it's embedded database > > or one of the support externals (mysql, oracle, ms-sql, > > postgres, etc). > > Why would anyone besides yourself be concerned about this? > > > > > Seriously, don't you think this over-kill for the basic > > functionality that is desired, namely in-game voice > > communications? > > Seriously. No. > > > My opinion? Work on something that's actually beneficial > > to the community, like Mumble; or a training server; or > > whatever. > > Next time you want to suggest "knock yourself out", please you go ahead. That would save me from responding to pointless dribble. Also if you think you're the only contributor, you've got your head up your ass further than anyone else could imagine. > > -bd > > -- > Be Yourself @ mail.com! > Choose From 200+ Email Addresses > Get a Free Account at www.mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > netrek-dev mailing list > netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev > -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080903/d859d9b0/attachment.pgp From msucka0xff at programmer.net Fri Sep 5 18:45:11 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 15:45:11 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] Usage: ./newstartd [portfile] [debug] Message-ID: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> usage suggests portfile arg is optional, but ./newstartd debug does not start in debug, but prints 'usage' bug? -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080905/d565415b/attachment.htm From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 5 19:36:28 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 19:36:28 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Usage: ./newstartd [portfile] [debug] In-Reply-To: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080906003627.GJ20621@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 03:45:11PM -0800, . . wrote: > usage suggests portfile arg is optional, but ./newstartd debug does not > start in debug, but prints 'usage' A quick review of newstartd.c shows proper usage, which matches the usage statement: ./newstartd ../etc/ports debug Works fine. > bug? No. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080905/4bce9378/attachment.pgp From quozl at us.netrek.org Sat Sep 6 00:14:04 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 15:14:04 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Usage: ./newstartd [portfile] [debug] In-Reply-To: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080906051404.GA13476@us.netrek.org> On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 03:45:11PM -0800, . . wrote: > usage suggests portfile arg is optional, but ./newstartd debug does > not start in debug, but prints 'usage' I've decided to deprecate the documentation of this debug feature, as anyone who is in serious need of it will be reading the source anyway. Sat Sep 6 15:11:00 EST 2008 quozl at us.netrek.org * deprecate debug documentation in usage diff -rN -u old-netrek-server/Vanilla/newstartd/newstartd.c new-netrek-server/Vanilla/newstartd/newstartd.c --- old-netrek-server/Vanilla/newstartd/newstartd.c 2008-09-06 15:13:41.000000000 +1000 +++ new-netrek-server/Vanilla/newstartd/newstartd.c 2008-09-06 15:13:41.000000000 +1000 @@ -146,8 +146,10 @@ /* if someone tries to ask for help, give 'em it */ if (argc == 2 && argv[1][0] == '-') { - fprintf (stderr, "Usage: %s [portfile] [debug]\n", argv[0] ); - fprintf (stderr, "Usage: %s stop\n", argv[0] ); + fprintf(stderr, "Usage: %s [start|stop|reload]\n", argv[0]); + fprintf(stderr, " start, begins listening for client connections\n"); + fprintf(stderr, " stop, stop listening for client connections\n"); + fprintf(stderr, " reload, read the port file after it is changed\n"); exit (1); } -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From stephen.thorne at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 01:27:46 2008 From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:27:46 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Usage: ./newstartd [portfile] [debug] In-Reply-To: <20080906051404.GA13476@us.netrek.org> References: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <20080906051404.GA13476@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <3e8ca5c80809052327s30e2e227xccc12c6fbc8eb029@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 3:14 PM, James Cameron wrote: > I've decided to deprecate the documentation of this debug feature, as > anyone who is in serious need of it will be reading the source anyway. I'm not keen on writing a patch for this just now, but I always appreciate it when programs have a --help that contains all options, even if they are nasty internal options that only someone who knows what they're doing should use. Omitting debug from the 'usage' is fine, imho, but having a working -h/--help option that reminds the operator that it exists would be nice. -- Stephen Thorne "Give me enough bandwidth and a place to sit and I will move the world." --Jonathan Lange From quozl at us.netrek.org Sat Sep 6 06:13:11 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 21:13:11 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Usage: ./newstartd [portfile] [debug] In-Reply-To: <3e8ca5c80809052327s30e2e227xccc12c6fbc8eb029@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080905234511.5D0DE164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <20080906051404.GA13476@us.netrek.org> <3e8ca5c80809052327s30e2e227xccc12c6fbc8eb029@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080906111311.GA24181@us.netrek.org> On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 04:27:46PM +1000, Stephen Thorne wrote: > Omitting debug from the 'usage' is fine, imho, but having a working > -h/--help option that reminds the operator that it exists would be > nice. The netrekd code yesterday and today responds to -h or --help with 'usage'. (The COW client responds to --help with usage, but -h is a flag for host to connect to. History.) -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Sun Sep 7 19:51:57 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:51:57 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080907191422.GD7382@brent.veroquest.com> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080907191422.GD7382@brent.veroquest.com> Message-ID: <20080908005157.GB8945@us.netrek.org> So what you are expressing is the evolution of netrek by experimentation and testing variations versus the nurture and protection of what is already present? -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From list2rado at gmx.de Mon Sep 8 08:12:01 2008 From: list2rado at gmx.de (Rado S) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:12:01 +0200 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080908005157.GB8945@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080907191422.GD7382@brent.veroquest.com> <20080908005157.GB8945@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080908131200.GI9779@sun36.math.uni-hamburg.de> =- James Cameron wrote on Mon 8.Sep'08 at 10:51:57 +1000 -= > So what you are expressing is the evolution of netrek by > experimentation and testing variations versus the nurture and > protection of what is already present? Yes. What's the benefit of sticking to an old love that isn't appealing to the casual observer? Or maybe you should explain "nurture" a bit more. -- ? Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give. From brent.d.m at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 14:14:22 2008 From: brent.d.m at gmail.com (Brent D Miller) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:14:22 +0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080907191422.GD7382@brent.veroquest.com> My vote would be to do something along the lines of: put "blessed" servers at the top of the list, and all other servers below, in an "experimental" section. If there are still too many servers, then the number of slots for experimental servers could be limited to one or two with a wait queue. My reasoning is: if we further cirpple people from being able to make changes and make new (possibly unpopular) ideas visible where the community can shop them out, then we'll have doomed ourselves on a sinking ship. I think we could do a better job of letting prospective developers try and fail with new ideas (and then possibly revise them) on their own time, instead of turning them all away. On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 01:17:39PM +1000, James Cameron wrote: > At the moment the metaservers accept new server listings from anybody > who wants to set up a server. It has been this way for many years. > > I'm not sure this is such a good idea, given the current size of games > and the rate of play. > > What do people think ... > > 1. lock down the metaservers so that new servers cannot be listed, > > 2. add a way to accept new servers, > > 3. keep the server to metaserver UDP solicitation channel open for > existing servers. > > This is just for discussion purposes. The infrastructure team would > benefit from knowing what people think. > > -- > James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From brent.d.m at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:53:50 2008 From: brent.d.m at gmail.com (Brent D Miller) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:53:50 +0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080908005157.GB8945@us.netrek.org> References: <20080902031739.GB31071@us.netrek.org> <20080907191422.GD7382@brent.veroquest.com> <20080908005157.GB8945@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080908175350.GA10832@brent.veroquest.com> The community is small, so I wouldn't toss nurturing out. (I sent an earlier email just to James, clarifying that I was not voting in favor of totally open evolution. I really think there is tremendous value in the work that has been done coalescing the netrek server code base.) But I was trying to say we should retain some mechanism by which new developers can try ideas and judge the results with their own eyes. This is the opportunity for the more experienced "nurturers" to contemplate changes from newbie developers, while those newbie developers also get access to a real player base for testing. I think human nature is that most new prospective developers are more likely to take their initial step if there is a perceived process. Having "open" slots on the meta server (even if only scheduled once a week) would allow an individual to prototype a change on his/her own time and bring it to "show and tell." If there is a positive reception to the change, then it can open up a discussion for how to implement it in the "production" code. On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 10:51:57AM +1000, James Cameron wrote: > So what you are expressing is the evolution of netrek by experimentation > and testing variations versus the nurture and protection of what is > already present? > > -- > James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 15:45:33 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:45:33 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] decimal precision conformance for displayed stats Message-ID: This patch addresses the disparity between decimal precision values for the player stats (Offense, Defense, Bombing, Planet) displayed in the playerlist window versus those shown in the inform window. The prior method displayed the stats in the inform window using printf field width and precision modifiers which sometimes led to rounding errors. Precision is now maintained to two decimal places. The new method uses the ftoa() function for COW and the itof22() function for BRMH to generate values less susceptible to rounding errors. Here is some test data which shows the problem and how it is corrected: raw input --> 0.979000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, ftoa output --> 0.97 raw input --> 0.984000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, ftoa output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.985000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, ftoa output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.986000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, ftoa output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.987000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, ftoa output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.989000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, ftoa output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.990000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, ftoa output --> 0.99 raw input --> 0.991000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, ftoa output --> 0.99 raw input --> 0.979000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, itof22 output --> 0.97 raw input --> 0.984000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.985000, %5.2f output --> 0.98, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.986000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.987000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.989000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.990000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, itof22 output --> 0.98 raw input --> 0.991000, %5.2f output --> 0.99, itof22 output --> 0.99 Quozl: Attached is a patch for COW. Karth: Attached is a patch for BRMH 2.5. Bill: I checked and Netrek XP 2009 displays the stats in the inform window using the same printf method as COW so the COW patch can be used. You will also need to grab string_util.h and string_util.c to use the ftoa() function. Note: the patches can be downloaded from here as well: http://darcs.jesujuva.org/netrek-client-brmh/patch-brmh2.5.txt http://darcs.jesujuva.org/netrek-client-cow/patch-cow.txt I recorded my patches in darcs repos so they may be pulled from here: http://darcs.jesujuva.org/ Changes may also be viewed online in a more aesthetically pleasing way here: http://www.jesujuva.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi Zach -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: patch-brmh2.5.txt Url: http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080909/b3fd2e16/attachment.txt -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: patch-cow.txt Url: http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080909/b3fd2e16/attachment-0001.txt From akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to Wed Sep 10 01:18:09 2008 From: akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:18:09 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> (msucka0xff@programmer.net's message of "Tue, 2 Sep 2008 07:43:34 -0800") References: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <0qy720y15q.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> ". ." writes: > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Given > that clients point to a single metaserver by default, locking would > prohibit new development features from being show-cased in big > ways. What would be even better is if I could put a new server on > the metaserver list, and explain the new cool feature on netrek.org > directly without needing extra steps, e.g. sending email to > web-news at us.netrek.org. None of this is especially relevant unless we grow the player base. But if you want things added to the webserver, you can just ask me. From brent.d.m at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 01:53:36 2008 From: brent.d.m at gmail.com (Brent D Miller) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:53:36 +0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <0qy720y15q.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> References: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <0qy720y15q.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: <20080910065336.GA19584@brent.veroquest.com> BTW, if we do decide to accomodate putting experimental servers up on the meta server in some way, I'd like to try out a server I have with modest changes aimed at being more newbie-friendly. I've never tested the changes due to fear of spreading the existing player base too thin. I'm not optimistic about the changes, but still I'd like to test them sometime. If there are others in the same boat--with primitive ideas that are not fully baked but need testing and feedback--then maybe it's worth having a conversation. What do others think? Would it be worth having an "experimental server game" once a week or something? How do others accomplish testing? Thanks, Brent On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 02:18:09AM -0400, Andrew K. Bressen wrote: > > ". ." writes: > > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Given > > that clients point to a single metaserver by default, locking would > > prohibit new development features from being show-cased in big > > ways. What would be even better is if I could put a new server on > > the metaserver list, and explain the new cool feature on netrek.org > > directly without needing extra steps, e.g. sending email to > > web-news at us.netrek.org. > > None of this is especially relevant unless we grow the player base. > But if you want things added to the webserver, you can just ask me. From quozl at us.netrek.org Wed Sep 10 04:05:32 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:05:32 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] decimal precision conformance for displayed stats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080910090532.GB27567@us.netrek.org> Taken for COW, pushed, thanks. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 20:56:24 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:56:24 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: <20080910065336.GA19584@brent.veroquest.com> References: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <0qy720y15q.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <20080910065336.GA19584@brent.veroquest.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:53 AM, Brent D Miller wrote: > BTW, if we do decide to accomodate putting experimental servers up > on the meta server in some way, I'd like to try out a server I have > with modest changes aimed at being more newbie-friendly. > > I've never tested the changes due to fear of spreading the existing player > base too thin. I'm not optimistic about the changes, but still I'd like to > test them sometime. > > If there are others in the same boat--with primitive ideas that are not > fully baked but need testing and feedback--then maybe it's worth > having a conversation. Hi Brent, Can you give an example of your mods. Just curious. Zach From quozl at us.netrek.org Wed Sep 10 21:14:20 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:14:20 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver In-Reply-To: References: <20080902154334.95E23164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <0qy720y15q.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> <20080910065336.GA19584@brent.veroquest.com> Message-ID: <20080911021420.GA12162@us.netrek.org> And post the patches, they might be interesting. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From msucka0xff at programmer.net Thu Sep 11 11:18:47 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:18:47 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver Message-ID: <20080911161847.68D9F16429E@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Hi this sounds good and I could probably work with you on these if that would be something you were interested in. Regardless if you're available to join Freenode's IRC network, please join channel #netrek. Conversations periodically heat up mornings 8am PT for the European contributors, and around 3pm PT for the swing shift and AU contributors. Beware that talking about new ideas sometimes invites left field attacks. Thanks! -bd > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brent D Miller" > To: "Netrek Development Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:53:36 +0000 > > > BTW, if we do decide to accomodate putting experimental servers up > on the meta server in some way, I'd like to try out a server I have > with modest changes aimed at being more newbie-friendly. > > I've never tested the changes due to fear of spreading the existing player > base too thin. I'm not optimistic about the changes, but still I'd like to > test them sometime. > > If there are others in the same boat--with primitive ideas that are not > fully baked but need testing and feedback--then maybe it's worth > having a conversation. > > What do others think? Would it be worth having an "experimental server > game" once a week or something? How do others accomplish testing? > > Thanks, > Brent > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 02:18:09AM -0400, Andrew K. Bressen wrote: > > > > ". ." writes: > > > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Given > > > that clients point to a single metaserver by default, locking would > > > prohibit new development features from being show-cased in big > > > ways. What would be even better is if I could put a new server on > > > the metaserver list, and explain the new cool feature on netrek.org > > > directly without needing extra steps, e.g. sending email to > > > web-news at us.netrek.org. > > > > None of this is especially relevant unless we grow the player base. > > But if you want things added to the webserver, you can just ask me. > > _______________________________________________ > netrek-dev mailing list > netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev > -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From msucka0xff at programmer.net Thu Sep 11 11:34:46 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 08:34:46 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver Message-ID: <20080911163446.9B8D716429D@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Good to know! Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to > To: "Netrek Development Mailing List" > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] RFC: Locked Up Metaserver > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:18:09 -0400 > > > > ". ." writes: > > New servers while typically rare *should* be able to list. Given > > that clients point to a single metaserver by default, locking would > > prohibit new development features from being show-cased in big > > ways. What would be even better is if I could put a new server on > > the metaserver list, and explain the new cool feature on netrek.org > > directly without needing extra steps, e.g. sending email to > > web-news at us.netrek.org. > > None of this is especially relevant unless we grow the player base. > But if you want things added to the webserver, you can just ask me. > > > _______________________________________________ > netrek-dev mailing list > netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > http://mailman.us.netrek.org/mailman/listinfo/netrek-dev > -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From msucka0xff at programmer.net Thu Sep 11 19:24:12 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:24:12 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki Message-ID: <20080912002412.838D9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Folks, I tried to create an account on the http://wiki.us.netrek.org so I could update with development proposals. However I was unable to create an account that I could use to post anything. I tried the following steps: 1. Navigated to http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev 2. Clicked hyper-text link 'Login' (this took me to http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/FrontPage?action=login) 3. Clicked link 'UserPreferences' No ability to sign up listed on that page. Thanks, -bd -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From quozl at us.netrek.org Thu Sep 11 19:33:56 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:33:56 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki In-Reply-To: <20080912002412.838D9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20080912002412.838D9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <20080912003356.GB11696@us.netrek.org> Request logged with Real-Time support, ticket #18351. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Sat Sep 13 19:37:04 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:37:04 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki In-Reply-To: <20080912003356.GB11696@us.netrek.org> References: <20080912002412.838D9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <20080912003356.GB11696@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080914003704.GA7703@us.netrek.org> Ticket response is that to create an account you must e-mail Bob Tanner. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 15 02:08:00 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:08:00 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7 released Message-ID: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> netrek-client-cow 3.2.6 was released, adding a way to connect to unlisted servers without using command line, and lowering the update rate when in safe-idle mode. http://quozl.linux.org.au/netrek/ 878a7f85e8d7f4c619f69192d36ad564 netrek-client-cow-3.2.7.tar.gz Summary of changes: - add a server feature for the metaserver list, - fix statistics rounding error, - fix ship flicker, - in safe-idle mode, lower update rate, beep on t-mode begin, - metaserver, fix unknown status, failed to initialise, - remove OpenVMS support, - fix a compilation issue on x86_64. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080915/77434a2a/attachment.pgp From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 15 02:12:48 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:12:48 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Ubuntu Packaging Message-ID: <20080915071248.GA3948@us.netrek.org> G'day, https://launchpad.net/netrek-client-cow was begun by an interested party to facilitate packaging into Ubuntu. Anybody interested in contributing please register with Launchpad and get involved. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 15 03:38:13 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:38:13 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7 released In-Reply-To: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080915083813.GA14916@us.netrek.org> Packages built for Debian GNU/Linux Etch are available now for i386 and amd64 architectures. http://netrek.org/files/COW/ -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Tue Sep 16 20:43:43 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:43:43 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki References: <20080912002412.838D9164293@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> <20080912003356.GB11696@us.netrek.org> <20080914003704.GA7703@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-13 19:37:04 -0500, James Cameron said: > Ticket response is that to create an account you must e-mail Bob Tanner. We are discussing this in irc as well. Here are my comments. [It] looks like durning the time open registration of the wiki was active someone changed the registration page, login page, and attempted to destroy the evidence of the changes. I'm not confident of the user accounts on the wiki, my recommendation is backup the data, wipe the wiki, reinstall from scratch. but if we are going to start from ground zero, should look at other solutions/hosting services -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952 943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Minnesota, Linux | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From msucka0xff at programmer.net Wed Sep 17 09:50:59 2008 From: msucka0xff at programmer.net (. .) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:50:59 -0800 Subject: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki Message-ID: <20080917145059.BBDB211581F@ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com> oh geez that is a bummer fyi i was quite proud of the netrek wiki we had. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Tanner" > To: netrek-dev at us.netrek.org > Subject: Re: [netrek-dev] cannot create account on netrek wiki > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:43:43 -0500 > > > On 2008-09-13 19:37:04 -0500, James Cameron > said: > > > Ticket response is that to create an account you must e-mail Bob Tanner. > > We are discussing this in irc as well. Here are my comments. > > [It] looks like durning the time open registration of the wiki was > active someone changed the registration page, login page, and attempted > to destroy the evidence of the changes. > > I'm not confident of the user accounts on the wiki, my recommendation > is backup the data, wipe the wiki, reinstall from scratch. > > > but if we are going to start from ground zero, should look at other > solutions/hosting services > -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 17 11:56:03 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:56:03 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net Message-ID: As discussed on irc last night, I've started the netrek-server project on launchpad.net https://launchpad.net/~netrek-server This is just an experiement to see if launchpad works for the community. Nothing here is written in stone. Please email me your launchpad identity if you'd like to be a member of the Netrek Server Team. I'll be publishing a bzr branch from the official upstream code base sometime tonight. Once launchpad mirrors my bzr branch I'll put out a call for help to polish our launchpad entries. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 17 12:14:34 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:14:34 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net References: Message-ID: On 2008-09-17 11:56:03 -0500, Bob Tanner said: > I'll be publishing a bzr branch from the official upstream code base > sometime tonight. > > Once launchpad mirrors my bzr branch I'll put out a call for help to > polish our launchpad entries. The tailor conversion when alot quicker then I expected. My local branch is registered in launchpad and I'm wait for launchpad to mirror my branch, you can follow along here: https://code.launchpad.net/~netrek-server Here is the call for help. I'd like to change the branding of our launchpad entry. We need 3 images, details below. icon: A small image of exactly 14x14 pixels and at most 5kb in size, that can be used to identify this team. The icon will be displayed whenever the team name is listed - for example in listings of bugs or on a person's membership table. logo: An image of exactly 64x64 pixels that will be displayed in the heading of all pages related to the team. Traditionally this is a logo, a small picture or a personal mascot. It should be no bigger than 50kb in size. mugshot: A large image of exactly 192x192 pixels, that will be displayed on the team page in Launchpad. It should be no bigger than 100kb in size. Please send the images basic at us.netrek.org. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 17 15:23:54 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:23:54 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net References: Message-ID: On 2008-09-17 12:14:34 -0500, Bob Tanner said: > icon: > logo: > mugshot: Thanks Bill! Images look good. https://launchpad.net/netrek-server Love the Star Trek chevon. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 17 15:25:13 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:25:13 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net References: Message-ID: On 2008-09-17 11:56:03 -0500, Bob Tanner said: > This is just an experiement to see if launchpad works for the > community. Nothing here is written in stone. Let's not go wild here. I appreciate all the comments in irc and the email regarding "moving forward". But lets see how the netrek-server on launchpad works before we do meta-projects, PPA (personal package archives), etc... -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From netrek at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 18:28:41 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:28:41 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is for Ubuntu packaging right? I prefer to use the distributed development model and keep our own darcs repos. Zach From quozl at us.netrek.org Wed Sep 17 18:54:02 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:54:02 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server on launchpad.net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080917235402.GA20519@us.netrek.org> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 07:28:41PM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: > This is for Ubuntu packaging right? I prefer to use the distributed > development model and keep our own darcs repos. What is being explored is not incompatible with your current use of darcs. You probably don't understand it yet. I'm enjoying this, Launchpad is widening my mind, and giving me lots of ideas. I do not fear them. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 17 21:14:09 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:14:09 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] og? wc? creative shell scripting in a Makefile? Message-ID: Attempting to build netrek-server for ubuntu and make install fails on 'robotd/Makefile' Here is the rule: install: robot -mkdir -p $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og cp robot $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/robot if [ -d ${srcdir}/og -a `ls -a ${srcdir}/og | wc -l ` != 2 ]; then cp ${srcdir}/og/* $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/; fi What is all of this stuff dealing with og and 'ls -a .. | wc -l' stuff? Seems pretty kludgey. Is it still needed? $ find . -name "og*" ./Vanilla/robotd/ogg.c ./Vanilla/robotd/ogg.o Do not see any director 'og' out there. Thanks. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From quozl at us.netrek.org Wed Sep 17 23:07:43 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:07:43 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] og? wc? creative shell scripting in a Makefile? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080918040743.GE20519@us.netrek.org> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:14:09PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > install: robot > -mkdir -p $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og > cp robot $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/robot > if [ -d ${srcdir}/og -a `ls -a ${srcdir}/og | wc -l ` != 2 ]; then cp > ${srcdir}/og/* $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/; fi > > What is all of this stuff dealing with og and 'ls -a .. | wc -l' stuff? Buggered if I know. Nothing in the repo. I think this directory was intended to be local robot customisation. In the absence of anything meaningful in the repo, I've pushed a patch to remove that line of the install target. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From xyzzy at speakeasy.org Thu Sep 18 00:34:03 2008 From: xyzzy at speakeasy.org (Trent Piepho) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [netrek-dev] og? wc? creative shell scripting in a Makefile? In-Reply-To: <20080918040743.GE20519@us.netrek.org> References: <20080918040743.GE20519@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, James Cameron wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 09:14:09PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > > install: robot > > -mkdir -p $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og > > cp robot $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/robot > > if [ -d ${srcdir}/og -a `ls -a ${srcdir}/og | wc -l ` != 2 ]; then cp > > ${srcdir}/og/* $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og/; fi > > > > What is all of this stuff dealing with og and 'ls -a .. | wc -l' stuff? > > Buggered if I know. Nothing in the repo. I think this directory was > intended to be local robot customisation. In the absence of anything > meaningful in the repo, I've pushed a patch to remove that line of the > install target. If the directory ${srcdir}/og exists and there are any files in it, copy the everything in it $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/og. Trying to copy all the files would produce an error if there were no files. "no such file: ${srcdir}/*" or something like that. From quozl at us.netrek.org Thu Sep 18 04:02:48 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:02:48 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org Message-ID: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> Pondering: 1. whether we need a wiki at all, 2. whether the content we have has any significant value, 3. the error rate in the content we have. Taking them in reverse order ... -- 3. the error rate in the content we have This is not a criticism of contributors, or the lack of time they may have had, but one of the problems of Wikis is that content ages, becomes prone to error, unless maintained. When I detect bad content, I fix it or remove it. I haven't been watching the Wiki, because it turns out my RSS feed was relying on RecentChanges and RecentChanges was broken. My mistake for not checking. I've looked through every page linked from the main page, and the error rate in the content is surprisingly low. Some important pages have been maintained well, and that is good. 2. whether the content we have has any significant value We have strategic plans, source code, definitions, and history. Certainly the strategic plans and the collaboration there should be kept. The source code instructions are less important, because we do a reasonable job of following the standard practices used by other projects. History, shrug, not sure how valuable that is. Some duplication is there between source code and Wiki content, but it isn't a major thing. 1. whether we need a wiki at all Yes, I think we do. It is a useful way to collaborate, especially at the variable rate that we are exhibiting. So to fix the current situation takes either: (a) accepting some work or access control on the current wiki, e.g. an HTTP authentication prompt to keep out the bots, or; (b) finding another wiki host, and I know several of you have looked into that already. Discuss. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Thu Sep 18 10:47:26 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:47:26 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? Message-ID: I'm a hybred operating system user now. I got the opportunity to do some osx development and I jumped at the chance. How does this related to netrek? :-) Busted wiki -> netrek-server on launchpad -> darcs to bzr I'd like to do darcs on osx. Is the prefered way to install it via ports? Seems like a ton of stuff gets pulled in when I install it. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From jka at inthewings.net Thu Sep 18 11:10:31 2008 From: jka at inthewings.net (Jon Akers) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:10:31 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7 released In-Reply-To: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> netrek client gentoo ebuilds for 3.2.7 are now available here: http://www.inthewings.net/ebuild/portage/games-simulation/netrek-client-cow/netrek-client-cow-3.2.7.ebuild From netrek at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:07:18 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:07:18 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] og? wc? creative shell scripting in a Makefile? In-Reply-To: References: <20080918040743.GE20519@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: Hey Trent your Paradise2000 client expired. I emailed you about it but never heard back from ya. Zach From netrek at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:09:29 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:09:29 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org In-Reply-To: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> References: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 5:02 AM, James Cameron wrote: > > (a) accepting some work or access control on the current wiki, e.g. an > HTTP authentication prompt to keep out the bots, or; How about a simple captcha? Zach From tanner at real-time.com Thu Sep 18 15:32:15 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:32:15 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org References: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-18 15:09:29 -0500, "Zach Uram" said: > How about a simple captcha? Do you know of a captcha that works with moin? -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From netrek at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:37:45 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:37:45 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Bob Tanner wrote: > I'm a hybred operating system user now. I got the opportunity to do > some osx development and I jumped at the chance. > > How does this related to netrek? :-) > > Busted wiki -> netrek-server on launchpad -> darcs to bzr > > I'd like to do darcs on osx. Is the prefered way to install it via > ports? Seems like a ton of stuff gets pulled in when I install it. http://darcs.darwinports.com/ http://marc-abramowitz.com/archives/2007/11/23/darcs-for-os-x-leopard/ http://lists.osuosl.org/pipermail/darcs-users/2005-October/008621.html Zach From netrek at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:43:34 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:43:34 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org In-Reply-To: References: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Bob Tanner wrote: > On 2008-09-18 15:09:29 -0500, "Zach Uram" > said: > >> How about a simple captcha? > > Do you know of a captcha that works with moin? Here is a text-based version: http://moinmo.in/TextCha It seems an image-based version has been requested but not implemented: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FeatureRequests/ImageVerification Some ideas: http://www.mail-archive.com/moin-user at lists.sourceforge.net/msg00250.html Zach From quozl at us.netrek.org Thu Sep 18 17:51:45 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:51:45 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] og? wc? creative shell scripting in a Makefile? In-Reply-To: References: <20080918040743.GE20519@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080918225145.GA10229@us.netrek.org> We have Paradise 2.99 on the netrek.org download list, and Netrek XP 2009 has paradise protocol compatibility. The policies for listing new clients on netrek.org can be found here: http://wiki.us.netrek.org/netrek-dev/NexusListingPolicies -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Thu Sep 18 18:03:39 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:03:39 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org In-Reply-To: References: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080918230339.GB10229@us.netrek.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 04:09:29PM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: > How about a simple captcha? I don't think that will work. For a captcha to be successful against the evolution of new robot attackers, it has to be a novelty. If you use a captcha used by someone else, then as soon as it becomes recognised it is broken. I don't see any of us willing to set up a unique captcha with Netrek theme, given the size of the audience for this wiki (ourselves, not the players), and the ease of setting up something like HTTP basic authentication. Mind you ... should we ever need a captcha for something in Netrek, such as registration of new player accounts ... then we could start with the random image nest used on netrek.org screenshot section, and set up several questions per image: http://netrek.org/img/scrshots/scrshot20.png 1. what is the name of the planet? [Alpha Centauri, or Centauri] 2. what is the three letter abbreviation for the planet? [ALP] 3. which ship is firing a phase? [F7, or 7] 4. how many orion (blue) torps can you see? [2] 5. which ship is cloaked? [b] 6. etc, etc etc. Kind of like a visual clue check. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 19:26:59 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:26:59 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] wiki.us.netrek.org In-Reply-To: <20080918230339.GB10229@us.netrek.org> References: <20080918090248.GA14474@us.netrek.org> <20080918230339.GB10229@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 7:03 PM, James Cameron wrote: > > I don't think that will work. For a captcha to be successful against > the evolution of new robot attackers, it has to be a novelty. If you > use a captcha used by someone else, then as soon as it becomes > recognised it is broken. I don't see any of us willing to set up a > unique captcha with Netrek theme, given the size of the audience for > this wiki (ourselves, not the players), and the ease of setting up > something like HTTP basic authentication. Ah. > Mind you ... should we ever need a captcha for something in Netrek, such > as registration of new player accounts ... then we could start with the > random image nest used on netrek.org screenshot section, and set up > several questions per image: > > http://netrek.org/img/scrshots/scrshot20.png > > 1. what is the name of the planet? [Alpha Centauri, or Centauri] > > 2. what is the three letter abbreviation for the planet? [ALP] > > 3. which ship is firing a phase? [F7, or 7] > > 4. how many orion (blue) torps can you see? [2] > > 5. which ship is cloaked? [b] > > 6. etc, etc etc. I like it. Zach From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 05:04:38 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:04:38 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7-i386-portable-0 released In-Reply-To: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080919100438.GA31224@us.netrek.org> A portable Linux i386 build of netrek-client-cow 3.2.7 was released. Use this build on any version of Linux with a 2.4 or later kernel. http://netrek.org/files/COW/ 03a125ec5998db2910f16a52a43482e7 netrek-client-cow-3.2.7-i386-portable-0.tar.gz Installation instructions: 1. download the file, 2. unpack it, 3. cd into the directory created, 4. run the netrek-client-cow script. The way it works is to use the libraries in the directory structure rather than the libraries of the host operating system. There are some exceptions, which are visible using lsof(8). Problems: a. security fixes to libraries are not applied, since most of the host libraries are bypassed, b. lack of integration into desktop menus, c. source for the included libraries is not included, which means that to comply with the library source licenses (GPL, LGPL) I must be willing to provide the source on receipt of a written request, d. large size of the .tar.gz, since it includes things that are not strictly needed. Reference: - the mkportable.sh script in the netrek-client-cow repository. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/7df3469a/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 12:00:27 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:00:27 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff Message-ID: Still working through getting a clean build of netrek-server on ubuntu. I'm in Vanilla/tools and below. Vanilla/tools/Makefile.in:102 $(INSTALLPROG) $(INSTALLOPTS) ban $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/tools/ban Ok, we install ban into /some/path/tools/ban Vanilla/tools/admin/Makefile.in: ADMINDIR= $(LIBDIR)/tools/admin EXECS = ban free kill quit reset all: $(EXECS) install: $(EXECS) mkdir -p $(DESTDIR)$(ADMINDIR) $(INSTALLPROG) $(INSTALLOPTS) $(EXECS) $(ADMINDIR) -and- we install ban into /some/oath/tools/admin Why? Where should ban (and free, quit, reset) live? -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 19 12:30:37 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:30:37 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:00:27PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > Still working through getting a clean build of netrek-server on ubuntu. > > I'm in Vanilla/tools and below. > > Vanilla/tools/Makefile.in:102 > > $(INSTALLPROG) $(INSTALLOPTS) ban $(DESTDIR)$(LIBDIR)/tools/ban > > Ok, we install ban into /some/path/tools/ban Correct. > Vanilla/tools/admin/Makefile.in: > > ADMINDIR= $(LIBDIR)/tools/admin > > EXECS = ban free kill quit reset > > all: $(EXECS) > > install: $(EXECS) > mkdir -p $(DESTDIR)$(ADMINDIR) > $(INSTALLPROG) $(INSTALLOPTS) $(EXECS) $(ADMINDIR) > > -and- we install ban into /some/oath/tools/admin Also correct. > Why? The first "ban" reference above is the ban admin executable that allows temporary banning, expiring bans, listing bans, dumping bans, etc. This resides in $(DESTIDIR)/$(LIBDIR)/tools. The second reference above is the script that's called via the in-game "admin ban" command. This script also appears to be deprecated and does not add the ban to the etc/ip/deny directory but continues to add it to the etc/banned file instead. > Where should ban (and free, quit, reset) live? $(ADMINDIR) John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/8f783d0e/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 12:44:44 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:44:44 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff References: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: On 2008-09-19 12:30:37 -0500, "John R. Dennison" said: >> Why? > > The first "ban" reference above is the ban admin executable > that allows temporary banning, expiring bans, listing bans, > dumping bans, etc. This resides in $(DESTIDIR)/$(LIBDIR)/tools. > > The second reference above is the script that's called via > the in-game "admin ban" command. This script also appears > to be deprecated and does not add the ban to the etc/ip/deny > directory but continues to add it to the etc/banned file > instead. If it's deprecated, prune it? -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 19 12:52:57 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:52:57 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:44:44PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: > On 2008-09-19 12:30:37 -0500, "John R. Dennison" > said: > > > The second reference above is the script that's called via > > the in-game "admin ban" command. This script also appears > > to be deprecated and does not add the ban to the etc/ip/deny > > directory but continues to add it to the etc/banned file > > instead. > > If it's deprecated, prune it? Nah, it's on my todo list to fix to use etc/ip/deny. When I have a few free moments I will get to it and push the patch. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/681ef837/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 12:55:39 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:55:39 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff In-Reply-To: <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> References: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <2744328F-3FCA-4E73-85DC-1239AD56A60E@real-time.com> On Sep 19, 2008, at 12:52 PM, John R. Dennison wrote: > On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:44:44PM -0500, Bob Tanner wrote: >> On 2008-09-19 12:30:37 -0500, "John R. Dennison" >> said: >> >>> The second reference above is the script that's called via >>> the in-game "admin ban" command. This script also appears >>> to be deprecated and does not add the ban to the etc/ip/deny >>> directory but continues to add it to the etc/banned file >>> instead. >> >> If it's deprecated, prune it? > > Nah, it's on my todo list to fix to use etc/ip/deny. When > I have a few free moments I will get to it and push the > patch. > I'll put 'putting back' on my TODO list for ubuntu build :-) -- Bob Tanner | Phone : (952)943-8700 http://www.real-time.com, Debian Linux, OSX | Fax : (952)943-8500 Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/6a1bb2d2/attachment.pgp From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 19 13:10:08 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:10:08 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] etc/access references Message-ID: <20080919181008.GH3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Unless someone can provide a compelling reason to keep them, I am removing references to the etc/access file; getpath.c is the only run-time code that references it. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/8eb088d8/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 13:41:10 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:41:10 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] res-rsa' and config.cache, config.status, config.log Message-ID: I've worked around the below warning by doing a manual rm -f of the 'offending' files in the post-clean up rule of the dpkg build process. But as stated, it says I should contact upstream :-) W: netrek-server-vanilla source: configure-generated-file-in-source res-rsa/config.status N: N: Leaving config.cache/status causes autobuilders problems. config.cache N: and config.status are produced by GNU autoconf's configure scripts. If N: they are left in the source package, autobuilders may pick up settings N: for the wrong architecture. N: N: The clean rule in debian/rules should remove this file. This should N: ideally be done by fixing the upstream build system to do it when you N: run the appropriate cleaning command (and don't forget to forward the N: fix to the upstream authors so it doesn't happen in the next release). N: If that is already implemented, then make sure you are indeed cleaning N: it in the clean rule. If all else fails, a simple rm -f should work. N: N: Note that Lintian cannot reliably detect the removal in the clean N: rule, so once you fix this, please ignore or override this warning. N: W: netrek-server-vanilla source: configure-generated-file-in-source res-rsa/config.log I'd think moving the @/bin/rm -f config.cache config.h config.log config.status from distclean:: to clean:; ? -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 19 14:03:20 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:03:20 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff In-Reply-To: <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> References: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <20080919190320.GI3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:52:57PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote: > > Nah, it's on my todo list to fix to use etc/ip/deny. When > I have a few free moments I will get to it and push the > patch. Fixed and pushed: http://darcs.gerdesas.com/netrek-server/ John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/065862c2/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 17:29:49 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:29:49 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] BETA test ubuntu hardy packages Message-ID: BETA src and deb packages are available from launchpad. See https://launchpad.net/~netrek-server-team/+archive for details. Please use https://bugs.launchpad.net/~netrek-server-team to report any issues with *just* the ubuntu packages. More documentation coming as I find the time. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 20:01:04 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:01:04 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] BETA test ubuntu hardy packages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080920010104.GB4022@us.netrek.org> Version 2.13.0ubuntu0.1 installed and tested on an Ubuntu Hardy system here, worked fine, was able to play against practice robots. Logged a few bugs as requested. Well done. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 20:07:16 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:07:16 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] etc/access references In-Reply-To: <20080919181008.GH3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> References: <20080919181008.GH3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <20080920010716.GC4022@us.netrek.org> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 01:10:08PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote: > Unless someone can provide a compelling reason to keep them, I am removing > references to the etc/access file; getpath.c is the only run-time code > that references it. Go for it. It is obsolete and was not fully removed. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 20:41:09 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:41:09 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] BETA test ubuntu hardy packages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are there current cow packages too? I can try to test on dapepr Zach From quozl at laptop.org Fri Sep 19 19:59:06 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:59:06 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] [NEW] server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> *** This bug is a security vulnerability *** Public security bug reported: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. ** Affects: netrek-server Importance: Undecided Status: New -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: New Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Fri Sep 19 19:55:46 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:55:46 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272337] [NEW] /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found References: <20080920005546.24419.76459.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920005546.24419.76459.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Public bug reported: An unusual error message was emitted on installation. The netrekd is not started. {{{ Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.1) ... /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found }}} Workaround: run /usr/games/netrekd to start the server. ** Affects: netrek-server Importance: Undecided Status: New -- /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272337 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is the registrant for Netrek Server. Status in Netrek Server: New Bug description: An unusual error message was emitted on installation. The netrekd is not started. {{{ Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.1_i386.deb) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.1) ... /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla: 21: text: not found }}} Workaround: run /usr/games/netrekd to start the server. From quozl at laptop.org Fri Sep 19 20:04:24 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:04:24 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920010424.24419.73005.launchpad@potassium.ubuntu.com> ** Visibility changed to: Public -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: New Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 20:46:14 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:46:14 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] More confusing Makefile stuff In-Reply-To: <20080919190320.GI3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> References: <20080919173037.GE3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> <20080919175257.GG3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> <20080919190320.GI3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> Message-ID: <20080920014614.GF4022@us.netrek.org> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 02:03:20PM -0500, John R. Dennison wrote: > Fixed and pushed: http://darcs.gerdesas.com/netrek-server/ Taken. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 20:49:29 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:49:29 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek ebuild In-Reply-To: <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> Message-ID: <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:10:31PM -0400, Jon Akers wrote: > netrek client gentoo ebuilds for 3.2.7 are now available here: > http://www.inthewings.net/ebuild/portage/games-simulation/netrek-client-cow/netrek-client-cow-3.2.7.ebuild Thanks for your work on this. Any chance of doing the same for netrek-server? -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 20:59:11 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:59:11 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] BETA test ubuntu hardy packages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080920015911.GH4022@us.netrek.org> On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 09:41:09PM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: > Are there current cow packages too? I can try to test on dapepr The only ones that I know of at the moment are mine, but I welcome work to create better packaging. You can find mine at: http://netrek.org/files/COW/netrek-client-cow_3.2.7-0_i386.deb or http://netrek.org/files/COW/netrek-client-cow_3.2.7-0_amd64.deb and I have tested the i386 one on Ubuntu Hardy and it works. I don't think there is any good reason to test on Ubuntu Dapper. Nobody still runs that. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 21:14:37 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:14:37 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080920021437.GI4022@us.netrek.org> I don't know what the best option is for darcs on osx, but if you find out, let me know, 'cause that would enable development for me too. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 21:14:43 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:14:43 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920021443.7079.59906.malone@palladium.canonical.com> The init script in upstream is old school and I did not even look at it. Cleaning it up now. ** Changed in: netrek-server Importance: Undecided => Low Assignee: (unassigned) => Bob Tanner (tanner) Status: New => In Progress -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 22:17:45 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:17:45 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek ebuild References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-19 20:49:29 -0500, James Cameron said: > Thanks for your work on this. > Any chance of doing the same for netrek-server? And join the netrek-server-team on launchpad? Good tools there to help distribute patches, track bugs, and communicate regarding our common code base. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 22:11:35 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:11:35 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920031136.17878.19703.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Fri Sep 19 23:16:22 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:16:22 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? References: <20080920021437.GI4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-19 21:14:37 -0500, James Cameron said: > I don't know what the best option is for darcs on osx, but if you find > out, let me know, 'cause that would enable development for me too. http://marc-abramowitz.com/archives/2007/11/23/darcs-for-os-x-leopard/ Working ok for me -without- pulling in half of darwinports. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From jrd at gerdesas.com Fri Sep 19 23:34:26 2008 From: jrd at gerdesas.com (John R. Dennison) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:34:26 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] etc/access references In-Reply-To: <20080920010716.GC4022@us.netrek.org> References: <20080919181008.GH3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> <20080920010716.GC4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080920043425.GJ3033@frodo.gerdesas.com> On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:07:16AM +1000, James Cameron wrote: > > Go for it. It is obsolete and was not fully removed. Done and pushed. John -- "I'm sorry but our engineers do not have phones." As stated by a Network Solutions Customer Service representative when asked to be put through to an engineer. "My other computer is your windows box." Ralf Hildebrandt trying to play sturgeon while it's under attack is apparently not fun. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080919/755bf3ac/attachment.pgp From quozl at us.netrek.org Fri Sep 19 23:38:20 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:38:20 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] lp: netrek-server-team vs netrek-client-cow In-Reply-To: References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080920043820.GA31271@us.netrek.org> netrek-client-cow project on Launchpad is owned by Collin, and I'm not able to make any changes it seems. netrek-server-team on Launchpad is functioning much better, since I'm able to make changes, along with Bob. Is Hellow on this mailing list? I wonder ... Bob, can we have a netrek-team project with subprojects netrek-server-team and netrek-client-cow? I don't expect any code sharing apart from what already happens, just wanting to make things consistent on lp. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at laptop.org Fri Sep 19 23:31:52 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:31:52 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920043152.24419.64169.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> 2.13.0ubuntu0.2 nearly fixes this, but we get an error during install, "/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log: Permission denied", as this is owned by root not games. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at us.netrek.org Sat Sep 20 00:24:44 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:24:44 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-pygame-0.4 released In-Reply-To: <20080722105151.GA2835@us.netrek.org> References: <20080722105151.GA2835@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080920052444.GA1429@us.netrek.org> A Netrek client, using pygame, usable on any operating system supported by python and pygame, including Microsoft Windows, MAC OS X, and Linux. netrek-client-pygame 0.4 was released, with a large amount of change since 0.3, including UDP support, screen update efficiencies, and many playability fixes. Still lacks message display, but can send RCDs fine. Workaround is to place terminal stdout below graphics window. http://quozl.linux.org.au/netrek-client-pygame/ 3d4a0bb7a9881d8242ffccce24f300d8 netrek-client-pygame-0.4.tar.gz Also at http://netrek.org/files/netrek-client-pygame/ Get involved: 1. play testing, 2. add a message display, 3. packaging for platform of your choice, 4. add support for Mark Mielke's 1280x800 display, or Zach Uram's 1024x768 display, 5. port to an alternate graphics library, converting assets to vector form, Patches welcome. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080920/abba1bdd/attachment.pgp From netrek at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 01:26:50 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 02:26:50 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? In-Reply-To: References: <20080920021437.GI4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Bob Tanner wrote: > > http://marc-abramowitz.com/archives/2007/11/23/darcs-for-os-x-leopard/ > > Working ok for me -without- pulling in half of darwinports. I'm glad the link was helpful. Zach From tanner at real-time.com Sat Sep 20 17:57:36 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:57:36 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920225736.6970.315.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: Fix Committed => In Progress -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Sat Sep 20 18:16:39 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:16:39 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080920231639.17767.89013.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Worked the post-install script to set perms and ownership correctly. ubuntu0.3 is on the build farm should be available for testing in a couple minutes. ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Sat Sep 20 21:00:09 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:00:09 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080921020009.7079.89367.malone@palladium.canonical.com> ubuntu0.3 fails to complete the postinst. Cut and paste below. It does result in the netrekd running, and so play is possible, but the dpkg return code is non-zero, hence apt-get carries it out to shell. Not sure exactly what the postinst is failing on, I've tested every line I could ... but I do see it has two invokations of update-rc.d and uses debconf in the second. The debconf support we had in the older package for debian may not be needed yet, and so could be ripped out. The only question the postinst addresses is start on boot, and I cannot think of a use case for not starting on boot. Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.3) ... Starting /usr/games/netrekd... netrekd: Vanilla Netrek Listener 2.14.0 started, pid 6198, netrekd: logging to /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log dpkg: error processing netrek-server-vanilla (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 128 Errors were encountered while processing: netrek-server-vanilla E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Sun Sep 21 11:49:09 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:49:09 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080921164911.4106.43446.launchpad@gandwana.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: Fix Committed => In Progress -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Sun Sep 21 12:09:44 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:09:44 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080921170945.17767.36279.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> I cannot duplicate this problem. How are you installing the package? # apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 The following NEW packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 netrek-server-vanilla 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 923kB/1358kB of archives. After this operation, 3396kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! netrek-server-vanilla Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net hardy/main netrek-server-vanilla 2.13.0ubuntu0.3 [923kB] Fetched 923kB in 7s (131kB/s) Preconfiguring packages ... Selecting previously deselected package libgmp3c2. (Reading database ... 13344 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking libgmp3c2 (from .../libgmp3c2_2%3a4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package netrek-server-vanilla. Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.3_i386.deb) ... Setting up libgmp3c2 (2:4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.3) ... Processing triggers for libc6 ... ldconfig deferred processing now taking place /# echo $? 0 -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Sun Sep 21 18:19:23 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:19:23 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] BETA test ubuntu hardy packages References: Message-ID: On 2008-09-19 20:41:09 -0500, "Zach Uram" said: > Are there current cow packages too? I can try to test on dapepr This -should- work. I recommend doing it in pbuilder, but I'm to lazy to document how to do that right now. Add the below to apt.sources: deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/netrek-server-team/ubuntu hardy main $ sudo apt-get update $ cd /tmp $ apt-get source netrek-server-vanilla $ sudo apt-get build-dep netrek-server-vanilla $ sudo apt-get install devscripts $ cd netrek-server-vanilla-2.13.0ubuntu0.3/ $ debuild -sa -rfakeroot $ cd .. $ sudo dpkg -i netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.3_i386.deb $ sudo /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla start -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Sun Sep 21 18:31:46 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:31:46 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] lp: netrek-server-team vs netrek-client-cow References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> <20080920043820.GA31271@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-19 23:38:20 -0500, James Cameron said: > I wonder ... Bob, can we have a netrek-team project with subprojects > netrek-server-team and netrek-client-cow? I don't expect any code > sharing apart from what already happens, just wanting to make things > consistent on lp. It's called a meta project and meta team. It can be done. Would it make more sense to have something like this: netrek/ |-- netrek-client | |-- cow | | |-- owner-Collin | | `-- owner-netrek-client-team | |-- mactrek | |-- netrek-xp | |-- netrek-xp-mod | `-- paradise `-- netrek-server `-- owner-netrek-server-team Or just collapse all clients into netrek-client? -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From tanner at real-time.com Sun Sep 21 18:32:19 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:32:19 -0500 Subject: [netrek-dev] Slight OT: darcs on osx? References: <20080920021437.GI4022@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On 2008-09-20 01:26:50 -0500, "Zach Uram" said: >> >> Working ok for me -without- pulling in half of darwinports. > > I'm glad the link was helpful. Yes, thank you Zach. -- Bob Tanner Key fingerprint = F785 DDFC CF94 7CE8 AA87 3A9D 3895 26F1 0DDB E378 From netrek at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 00:24:48 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:24:48 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7-i386-portable-0 released In-Reply-To: <20080919100438.GA31224@us.netrek.org> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <20080919100438.GA31224@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: I tested it successfully on Debian lenny/sid with 2.6.18 kernel. Zach From akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to Mon Sep 22 00:57:22 2008 From: akb+lists.netrek-dev at mirror.to (Andrew K. Bressen) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:57:22 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] lp: netrek-server-team vs netrek-client-cow In-Reply-To: (Bob Tanner's message of "Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:31:46 -0500") References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> <20080920043820.GA31271@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <0q4p48soxp.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Bob Tanner writes: > Would it make more sense to have something like this: > > netrek/ > |-- netrek-client > | |-- cow > | | |-- owner-Collin > | | `-- owner-netrek-client-team > | |-- mactrek > | |-- netrek-xp > | |-- netrek-xp-mod > | `-- paradise > `-- netrek-server > `-- owner-netrek-server-team > > Or just collapse all clients into netrek-client? I think the clients should be kept seperate from each other, but I'm unclear on what the point of having launchpad setups for the mac and pc clients would be. From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 22 01:06:16 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:06:16 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] lp: netrek-server-team vs netrek-client-cow In-Reply-To: <0q4p48soxp.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <48D27D77.5050109@inthewings.net> <20080920014929.GG4022@us.netrek.org> <20080920043820.GA31271@us.netrek.org> <0q4p48soxp.fsf@lanconius.mirror.to> Message-ID: <20080922060616.GA10854@us.netrek.org> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 01:57:22AM -0400, Andrew K. Bressen wrote: > I think the clients should be kept seperate from each other, > but I'm unclear on what the point of having launchpad setups > for the mac and pc clients would be. Launchpad can be used for open source projects regardless of the target platform. While Launchpad has optimisations and features that are very suited to distribution of software with Linux or Ubuntu, there's no reason why it cannot be productively used by software that isn't intended for those targets. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at us.netrek.org Mon Sep 22 01:07:36 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:07:36 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7-i386-portable-0 released In-Reply-To: References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <20080919100438.GA31224@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20080922060736.GB10854@us.netrek.org> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 01:24:48AM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: > I tested it successfully on Debian lenny/sid with 2.6.18 kernel. What is lenny/sid? Hard to reproduce this test without knowing the versions of the packages in the moving target. I guess you mean packages as of today. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From netrek at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 03:53:16 2008 From: netrek at gmail.com (Zach Uram) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 04:53:16 -0400 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.7-i386-portable-0 released In-Reply-To: <20080922060736.GB10854@us.netrek.org> References: <20080915070800.GA3776@us.netrek.org> <20080919100438.GA31224@us.netrek.org> <20080922060736.GB10854@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 2:07 AM, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 01:24:48AM -0400, Zach Uram wrote: >> I tested it successfully on Debian lenny/sid with 2.6.18 kernel. > > What is lenny/sid? Hard to reproduce this test without knowing the > versions of the packages in the moving target. I guess you mean > packages as of today. Debian "testing" release. Yes as of today. Zach From quozl at laptop.org Tue Sep 23 03:51:26 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:51:26 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080923085127.12934.66295.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> So I gathered more problem data. I'll send you a complete strace. Interesting findings are: The debconf frontend is receiving netrekd output, vis: 18:26:50.928785 read(8, "/usr/games/netrekd already runni"..., 4096) = 36 18:26:51.337009 write(7, "20 Unsupported command \"/usr/gam"..., 124) = 124 18:26:51.337740 read(8, "GET netrek-server-vanilla/start_"..., 4096) = 40 The postinst is running twice. /sbin/start-stop-daemon is running twice. netrekd is failing the second time, since netrekd is already running, and this is presumably translated into the exit code of 128. More details, from an older, briefer, strace: # strace -o netrek-server-vanilla.log -ff -tt -e trace=process apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Analysis: # grep "= 20" netrek-server-vanilla.log.* netrek-server-vanilla.log.8185:18:05:31.713671 waitpid(8186, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 20}], 0) = 8186 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8186:18:05:32.716516 waitpid(8216, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 20}], 0) = 8216 # grep exec netrek-server-vanilla.log.8216 18:05:32.475662 execve("/var/lib/dpkg/info/netrek-server-vanilla.postinst", ["/var/lib/dpkg/info/netrek-server"..., "configure", ""], [/* 27 vars */]) = 0 Shows that the postinst which was pid 8216 returned 20. # grep waitpid *|grep -v ECHILD|grep -v "== 0"|grep -v "WNOHANG) = 0" netrek-server-vanilla.log.8155:18:05:33.529676 waitpid(8185, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 1}], WNOHANG) = 8185 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8164:18:05:29.628314 waitpid(8165, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 2}], 0) = 8165 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8175:18:05:30.107804 waitpid(8176, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 1}], 0) = 8176 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8181:18:05:30.335249 waitpid(8183, 0xbfb59ff8, 0) = ? ERESTARTSYS (To be restarted) netrek-server-vanilla.log.8185:18:05:31.713671 waitpid(8186, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 20}], 0) = 8186 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8186:18:05:32.716516 waitpid(8216, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 20}], 0) = 8216 Shows that no processes after 8216 exited badly. So we look at what the postinst forks. # grep clone *8216 18:05:32.491265 clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7e4b6f8) = 8217 18:05:32.509873 clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7e4b6f8) = 8218 18:05:32.520091 clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7e4b6f8) = 8219 18:05:32.544409 clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7e4b6f8) = 8220 18:05:32.554564 clone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb7e4b6f8) = 8222 Therefore it forked 8217, 8218, 8219, 8220, and 8222. What did the postinst see as exit status? # grep wait *8216|grep -v ECHILD 18:05:32.508963 waitpid(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], WNOHANG) = 8217 18:05:32.518481 waitpid(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], WNOHANG) = 8218 18:05:32.535303 waitpid(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], 0) = 8219 18:05:32.553460 waitpid(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], WNOHANG) = 8220 18:05:32.570311 waitpid(-1, [{WIFEXITED(s) && WEXITSTATUS(s) == 0}], 0) = 8222 Nothing unusual. What are these processes, what did they exec? # grep exec *8217 *8218 *8219 *8220 *8222 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8217:18:05:32.492441 execve("/bin/chown", ["chown", "-R", "games:", "/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla"], [/* 28 vars */]) = 0 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8218:18:05:32.511048 execve("/bin/chmod", ["chmod", "2755", "/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla"], [/* 28 vars */]) = 0 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8219:18:05:32.521517 execve("/usr/sbin/update-rc.d", ["update-rc.d", "netrek-server-vanilla", "defaults"], [/* 28 vars */]) = 0 netrek-server-vanilla.log.8222:18:05:32.555782 execve("/usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d", ["invoke-rc.d", "netrek-server-vanilla", "start"], [/* 28 vars */]) = 0 Odd, 8220 didn't exec. Ah, because it immediately forked 8221, "which invoke-rc.d" Looking now at the postinst, the chown and chmod worked, the update-rc.d worked, the invoke-rc.d worked, and so it points at the lines below that as being a cause ... # Source debconf library. . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule # Check user's answer db_get netrek-server-vanilla/start_on_boot if [ "$RET" = "true" ]; then /usr/sbin/update-rc.d netrek-server-vanilla defaults > /dev/null fi # Do not add the DEBHELPER stuff, we are doing the above ourselves. exit 0 -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Tue Sep 23 13:34:14 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:34:14 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080923183414.7079.83475.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Stripped out all of the debhelper functionality. Let me know if the ubuntu0.4 build "fixes" the problem. I did go back to ubuntu0.3 and I cannot duplicate this issue. Concerns me. Just noting this concern. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Tue Sep 23 17:54:11 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:54:11 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080923225412.2870.70698.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> ubuntu0.4 fixes the error return status from dpkg(1), thanks. New minor problem ... an error during initial install, which does not occur during reinstall, probably because /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla is not owned by games at the time netrekd is started. Reproducer: # dpkg --purge netrek-server-vanilla # rm -rf /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla # apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.4) ... Starting /usr/games/netrekd... /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log: Permission denied netrekd: port 2592, ntserv, listening fd 3, to do "ntserv" netrekd: port 2591, tools/players, listening fd 4, to do "players" m netrekd: port 3521, tools/players, listening fd 5, to do "players" u netrekd: port 2593, ntserv, listening fd 6, to do "ntservobs" -q 6 netrekd: port 2596, special, listening fd 7, to do "statistics" netrekd: port 4566, ntserv, listening fd 8, to do "home" -q 2 netrekd: port 4577, ntserv, listening fd 9, to do "away" -q 3 netrekd: port 4000, ntserv, listening fd 10, to do "homeobs" -q 4 netrekd: port 5000, ntserv, listening fd 11, to do "awayobs" -q 5 netrekd: Vanilla Netrek Listener 2.14.0 started, pid 9246, netrekd: logging to /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log At this point it says it is logging, but it isn't. There is no "log" file. lsof of the netrekd shows it has bound fds 0, 1, and 2 to the pts used by dpkg. Why might you have missed this? A removal of the package before anything is created in /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla results in the /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla directory being removed. But if anything is created inside this directory, the package removal does not remove the directory. # touch /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/test -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Tue Sep 23 18:50:24 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:50:24 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080923235024.16488.17713.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> Weird, email got blocked. Tryin web interface. On Sep 23, 2008, at 5:54 PM, James Cameron wrote: >Why might you have missed this? A removal of the package before >anything is created in /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla results in the >/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla directory being removed. But if anything >is created inside this directory, the package removal does not remove >the directory. I do not use dpkg directly? Install with apt-get root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 The following NEW packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 netrek-server-vanilla 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 917kB/1353kB of archives. After this operation, 3396kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! netrek-server-vanilla Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net hardy/main netrek-server-vanilla 2.13.0ubuntu0.4 [917kB] Fetched 917kB in 10s (87.1kB/s) Preconfiguring packages ... debconf (developer): starting /tmp/netrek-server-vanilla.config.219461 configure Selecting previously deselected package libgmp3c2. (Reading database ... 13344 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking libgmp3c2 (from .../libgmp3c2_2%3a4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package netrek-server-vanilla. Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.4_i386.deb) ... Setting up libgmp3c2 (2:4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.4) ... Processing triggers for libc6 ... ldconfig deferred processing now taking place Confirm we are games:games root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -dl /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ drwxr-sr-x 5 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ Start netrek server root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla start Starting /usr/games/netrekd... netrekd: Vanilla Netrek Listener 2.14.0 started, pid 22038, netrekd: logging to /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log Confirm write perms and process root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -l /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ total 20 drwxr-xr-x 7 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 blog drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 ip -rw------- 1 games games 609 Sep 23 23:32 log -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 6 Sep 23 23:32 netrekd.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 23 18:25 planets drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 www root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ps -ef | grep netrek games 22038 1 0 23:32 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/games/netrekd Stop netrek server, confirm, check /var/lib/netrek-server/vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla stop Stopped /usr/games/netrekd (pid 22038). root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ps -ef | grep netrek root 22058 21849 0 23:33 pts/1 00:00:00 grep netrek root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -l /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ total 20 drwxr-xr-x 7 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 blog drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 ip -rw------- 1 games games 609 Sep 23 23:32 log -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 6 Sep 23 23:32 netrekd.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 23 18:25 planets drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:29 www Use apt-get to remove and purge netrek-server-vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# apt-get remove --purge netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: libgmp3c2 Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. The following packages will be REMOVED: netrek-server-vanilla* 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded. After this operation, 2687kB disk space will be freed. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y (Reading database ... 13474 files and directories currently installed.) Removing netrek-server-vanilla ... Purging configuration files for netrek-server-vanilla ... debconf (developer): frontend started debconf (developer): frontend running, package name is netrek-server-vanilla debconf (developer): starting /var/lib/dpkg/info/netrek-server-vanilla.postrm purge debconf (developer): <-- PURGE debconf (developer): --> 0 dpkg - warning: while removing netrek-server-vanilla, directory `/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla' not empty so not removed. I believe the above warning is the proper and documented behavior (I commented in IRC about it) Ok, so lets re-install via apt-get root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: netrek-server-vanilla 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B/917kB of archives. After this operation, 2687kB of additional disk space will be used. WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! netrek-server-vanilla Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Preconfiguring packages ... debconf (developer): starting /tmp/netrek-server-vanilla.config.221441 configure Selecting previously deselected package netrek-server-vanilla. (Reading database ... 13357 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.4_i386.deb) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.4) ... Check ownership of /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -dl /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ drwxr-sr-x 5 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -l /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ total 20 drwxr-xr-x 7 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 blog drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 ip -rw------- 1 games games 609 Sep 23 23:32 log -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 6 Sep 23 23:32 netrekd.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 23 18:25 planets drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 www Start netrek again, checking files, perms, etc... root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla start Starting /usr/games/netrekd... netrekd: Vanilla Netrek Listener 2.14.0 started, pid 22213, netrekd: logging to /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -dl /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ drwxr-sr-x 5 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:40 /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ls -l /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ total 20 drwxr-xr-x 7 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 blog drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 ip -rw------- 1 games games 1218 Sep 23 23:40 log -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 6 Sep 23 23:40 netrekd.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 23 18:25 planets drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:38 www root at ubuntu-8:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# ps -ef | grep netrek games 22213 1 0 23:40 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/games/netrekd root 22221 21849 0 23:40 pts/1 00:00:00 grep netrek I'll try your dpkg direct way as well. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Tue Sep 23 19:04:48 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:04:48 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080924000448.7079.31431.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Using pbuilder to create a pristine ubuntu/hardy instance. tanner at ubuntu-8:pbuilder$ sudo pbuilder login --configfile hardy root at ubuntu-8:/# Install netrek-server-vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/# apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 The following NEW packages will be installed: libgmp3c2 netrek-server-vanilla 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B/1353kB of archives. After this operation, 3396kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! netrek-server-vanilla Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Preconfiguring packages ... debconf (developer): starting /tmp/netrek-server-vanilla.config.233391 configure Selecting previously deselected package libgmp3c2. (Reading database ... 13344 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking libgmp3c2 (from .../libgmp3c2_2%3a4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2_i386.deb) ... Selecting previously deselected package netrek-server-vanilla. Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.4_i386.deb) ... Setting up libgmp3c2 (2:4.2.2+dfsg-1ubuntu2) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.4) ... Processing triggers for libc6 ... ldconfig deferred processing now taking place Following your Reproducer, dpkg --purge netrek-server-vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/# dpkg --purge netrek-server-vanilla (Reading database ... 13474 files and directories currently installed.) Removing netrek-server-vanilla ... Purging configuration files for netrek-server-vanilla ... debconf (developer): frontend started debconf (developer): frontend running, package name is netrek-server-vanilla debconf (developer): starting /var/lib/dpkg/info/netrek-server-vanilla.postrm purge debconf (developer): <-- PURGE debconf (developer): --> 0 root at ubuntu-8:/# rm -rf /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla root at ubuntu-8:/# apt-get install netrek-server-vanilla Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following NEW packages will be installed: netrek-server-vanilla 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0B/917kB of archives. After this operation, 2687kB of additional disk space will be used. WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! netrek-server-vanilla Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y Preconfiguring packages ... debconf (developer): starting /tmp/netrek-server-vanilla.config.234421 configure Selecting previously deselected package netrek-server-vanilla. (Reading database ... 13357 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking netrek-server-vanilla (from .../netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.4_i386.deb) ... Setting up netrek-server-vanilla (2.13.0ubuntu0.4) ... root at ubuntu-8:/# /etc/init.d/netrek-server-vanilla start Starting /usr/games/netrekd... netrekd: Vanilla Netrek Listener 2.14.0 started, pid 23496, netrekd: logging to /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/log root at ubuntu-8:/# ls -l /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla/ total 20 drwxr-xr-x 7 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:53 blog drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:53 ip -rw------- 1 games games 536 Sep 23 23:54 log -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 6 Sep 23 23:54 netrekd.pid -rw-r--r-- 1 games games 0 Sep 23 18:25 planets drwxr-xr-x 3 games games 4096 Sep 23 23:53 www root at ubuntu-8:/# ps -ef | grep net games 22213 1 0 Sep23 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/games/netrekd games 23496 1 0 Sep23 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/games/netrekd games 25260 1 0 00:03 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/games/netrekd root at ubuntu-8:/# dpkg --purge netrek-server-vanilla (Reading database ... 13474 files and directories currently installed.) Removing netrek-server-vanilla ... Purging configuration files for netrek-server-vanilla ... debconf (developer): frontend started debconf (developer): frontend running, package name is netrek-server-vanilla debconf (developer): starting /var/lib/dpkg/info/netrek-server-vanilla.postrm purge debconf (developer): <-- PURGE debconf (developer): --> 0 dpkg - warning: while removing netrek-server-vanilla, directory `/var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla' not empty so not removed. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Tue Sep 23 21:06:57 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:06:57 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080924020658.16488.32962.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Tue Sep 23 22:51:07 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:51:07 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080924035107.5682.5571.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> Tested: ef6b7786dbbae9cbeb679bec45a744aa /var/cache/apt/archives/netrek-server-vanilla_2.13.0ubuntu0.5_i386.deb No error messages appeared on dpkg --install. Problems, (a) the netrekd is not running, though it can be started easily, (b) an error appears on dpkg --remove, "No /usr/games/netrekd found running; none killed." -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 24 01:06:59 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:06:59 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080924060700.6970.2371.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Added a placeholder for prerm so it won't try to stop netrekd, since I removed the debhelper section that automatically started netrekd. Try ubuntu0.6 -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Wed Sep 24 01:35:33 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:35:33 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080924063533.7079.29019.malone@palladium.canonical.com> Tested. ubuntu0.6 fixed the error on dpkg --remove, problem (b) above. But problem (a) persists, netrekd is not running after install. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From xfire at xware.cx Wed Sep 24 21:03:30 2008 From: xfire at xware.cx (Chris Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:03:30 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080925020330.6485.78608.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> This patch should resolve most of the issues and bring the general packaging style in-line with the norm for Debian/Ubuntu packages. It also adds a missing Build-Conflict which should help identify build issues on hardy where autoconf2.13 is installed. ** Attachment added: "fix-conf.patch" http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17943349/fix-conf.patch -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Wed Sep 24 21:15:26 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:15:26 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080925021526.17419.54952.launchpad@gandwana.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: Fix Committed => In Progress -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From xfire at xware.cx Wed Sep 24 22:48:16 2008 From: xfire at xware.cx (Chris Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:48:16 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Proposed merge of Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu Message-ID: <20080925034816.6652.57675.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> Chris Collins has proposed merging Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu. Whiteboard: None -- https://code.launchpad.net/~ccollins/netrek-server/ubuntu/+merge/1138 You are subscribed to branch Netrek Server for Ubuntu. From xfire at xware.cx Wed Sep 24 22:52:21 2008 From: xfire at xware.cx (Chris Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:52:21 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Proposed merge of Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu updated In-Reply-To: <20080925034816.6652.57675.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20080925035221.28499.10953.launchpad@potassium.ubuntu.com> The proposal to merge Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu has been updated. Commit Message changed to: Packaging changes to address issues raised by LP bug #272338 -- https://code.launchpad.net/~ccollins/netrek-server/ubuntu/+merge/1138 You are subscribed to branch Netrek Server for Ubuntu. From xfire at xware.cx Wed Sep 24 23:01:23 2008 From: xfire at xware.cx (Chris Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:01:23 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080925040123.28499.25951.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> patch is now uploaded to lp as a branch linked to this ticket. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: In Progress Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From xfire at xware.cx Wed Sep 24 23:30:05 2008 From: xfire at xware.cx (Chris Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:30:05 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Proposed merge of Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu updated In-Reply-To: <20080925034816.6652.57675.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20080925043005.7087.96305.launchpad@palladium.canonical.com> The proposal to merge Chris' netrek-server-vanilla ubuntu packaging branch into Netrek Server for Ubuntu has been updated. Status: Needs review => Merged -- https://code.launchpad.net/~ccollins/netrek-server/ubuntu/+merge/1138 You are subscribed to branch Netrek Server for Ubuntu. From tanner at real-time.com Thu Sep 25 01:24:25 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:24:25 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080925062425.28391.46568.malone@potassium.ubuntu.com> ubuntu0.8 fixes the problem? ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: In Progress => Fix Committed -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Thu Sep 25 02:06:18 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:06:18 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080925070618.7193.39077.malone@palladium.canonical.com> ubuntu0.8 fixed it, i'll raise another bug for a trivial install warning. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Committed Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From tanner at real-time.com Thu Sep 25 15:29:50 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:29:50 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Proposed merge of ~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282 into Netrek Server Upstream Message-ID: <20080925202950.6485.94590.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> Bob Tanner has proposed merging ~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282 into Netrek Server Upstream. Whiteboard: None -- https://code.launchpad.net/~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282/+merge/1145 You are subscribed to branch Netrek Server Upstream. From tanner at real-time.com Thu Sep 25 15:34:01 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:34:01 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] Proposed merge of ~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282 into Netrek Server Upstream updated In-Reply-To: <20080925202950.6485.94590.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20080925203401.6485.5894.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> The proposal to merge ~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282 into Netrek Server Upstream has been updated. Status: Needs review => Merged -- https://code.launchpad.net/~ccollins/netrek-server/netrek-server-274282/+merge/1145 You are subscribed to branch Netrek Server Upstream. From quozl at us.netrek.org Sun Sep 28 23:41:43 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:41:43 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-client-cow-3.2.8 released Message-ID: <20080929044143.GA25624@us.netrek.org> netrek-client-cow 3.2.8 was released, fixing a small bug with message composition, removing Java and Windows support from the tar.gz, and including the results of a copyright and licensing review. http://quozl.linux.org.au/netrek/ e8abc39e8aeaefda6ebe56cda7fc6b24 netrek-client-cow-3.2.8.tar.gz Summary of changes: - change of binary name, from netrek to netrek-client-cow. - COPYING: copyright and license review. - remove Java and Windows support. - remove debian/ directory from .tar.gz. - add mkportable script. - placing mouse in message composition window and typing did not behave in the historical fashion, the keystrokes were handled by the game as well as being added to the message being composed, reported by Zachary Uram. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mailman.us.netrek.org/pipermail/netrek-dev/attachments/20080929/1efb1aad/attachment.pgp From tanner at real-time.com Mon Sep 29 17:52:08 2008 From: tanner at real-time.com (Bob Tanner) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:52:08 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080929225209.13018.56756.launchpad@gangotri.canonical.com> ** Changed in: netrek-server Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Released Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at laptop.org Mon Sep 29 19:28:50 2008 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:28:50 -0000 Subject: [netrek-dev] [Bug 272338] Re: server runs as root unecessarily References: <20080920005906.24419.44996.malonedeb@potassium.ubuntu.com> Message-ID: <20080930002850.13018.28994.malone@gangotri.canonical.com> remains fixed in ubuntu0.10, i'm happy for this bug to close. -- server runs as root unecessarily https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272338 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Netrek Server Team, which is a direct subscriber. Status in Netrek Server: Fix Released Bug description: The server runs as root, but it does not need to. To run as non-root, the packaging should create a username to operate within, and chmod /var/lib/netrek-server-vanilla, and the init.d script should use the created username. A username of netrek is suggested. From quozl at us.netrek.org Tue Sep 30 01:58:28 2008 From: quozl at us.netrek.org (James Cameron) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:58:28 +1000 Subject: [netrek-dev] netrek-server-vanilla-2.15.0 released Message-ID: <20080930065828.GA518@us.netrek.org> netrek-server-vanilla 2.15.0 was released. http://quozl.linux.org.au/netrek/ fb19d0abe55dabd2dae47f15b502320c netrek-server-vanilla-2.15.0.tar.gz Also available on http://quozl.us.netrek.org/netrek/ http://netrek.org/files/Vanilla/ -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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